Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2021 November 26

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November 26

updating Thanksgiving information

To whom it may concern:

This year I have been made aware of how biased our understanding is of "the first Thanksgiving." Is there anyone out there who has time/energy to look into this and write a more well-rounded description--showing all sides of things? I am appalled that the description comes across very one-sided--from the viewpoint of the European pilgrims. This year I am realizing that the story as most of us know it is really trauma that is relived every year for some members of Native American tribes. Americans need to hear the complete story surrounding this topic and I believe 1/2 of it should incorporate perspectives from the native American viewpoint. Please consider, thank-you,

this article would make a great start: https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/6-thanksgiving-myths-share-them-with-someone-you-know — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:242:C003:D950:AD4B:B752:87CC:E843 (talk) 02:34, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

You're free to make suggestions at one or more of Talk:Thanksgiving, Talk:Thanksgiving (United States) and Talk:Thanksgiving (Canada). You'll be more likely to succeed in a given talk page if you limit yourself to suggestions of what to add to its article counterpart, of course providing reliable sources for this. If you make suggestions on two or three of these talk pages, be sure to minimize their overlap: Wikipedia editors tend to get rather snippy about anything that can be called a duplicate post. -- Hoary (talk) 11:59, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

As much as this might seem cathartic to them, that is explicitly not Wikipedia's place. You're better served talking with history scholars, the press, etc. Not a lagging indicator like Wikipedia. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 16:28, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Jéské Couriano, you surprise me. Americans need to hear the complete story surrounding this topic sounds to me like a worthy and definitely an encyclopedic aim -- provided, of course, that the story can be, and is, fleshed out from reliable sources (history scholars, the non-trashy press, etc). IP number, you might find this recent Guardian article of interest. Incidentally, although you are not obliged to log in, you'll find that there are slightly less constraints to editing if you are logged in. So I recommend that you get a user ID and consistently use it while editing. -- Hoary (talk) 04:31, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Dark mode?

Moved from WP:VPR

Hey, I've been inactive for months and am not that interested in editing here anymore, and I have no clue if this is the right place to ask, but does Wikipedia still not have a dark mode? It would be nice if I could go to this site without burning my eyes when I use dark mode basically everywhere else. Again, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to ask here because I've forgotten where I should, so it's fine if you redirect me to another page. Thanks. SemiHypercube 02:28, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@SemiHypercube: It's not turned on by default, but WP:Dark mode has instructions for the optional dark mode gadget and various other methods. ClaudineChionh (talk – contribs) 06:10, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@SemiHypercube: I use the Dark Reader extension on the Filter+ theme generation mode and a custom CSS addon to make equations appear properly. Seemplez 12:29, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Saint Martial school

I'm not sure what's causing the reference errors at the Saint Martial school article (appearing above the Sources section). Anyone know what is causing this? Please ping me! Best – Aza24 (talk) 08:25, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@Aza24: Help:Cite errors/Cite error references missing group#Issues and resolution says:

The message also appears if you mistakenly embed {{sfn}} or {{sfnp}} (rather than {{harv}}, {{harvnb}}, or {{harvp}}) inside <ref></ref>: <ref>{{sfnp|Foo|1999}}</ref>

PrimeHunter (talk) 08:43, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

PrimeHunter, indeed, but I don't believe I have any sfn in refs at the moment. I only have harvtxt which I believe falls under the "rather than" exceptions (I changed them to test it out and it still showed the reference errors. Aza24 (talk) 21:15, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Umm...

• <ref>See Helmut Spanke,{{sfn|Spanke|1931a}}{{sfn|Spanke|1931b}}{{sfn|Spanke|1932}} who studied the poetic innovations of the manuscripts of the Abbey of Saint Martial.</ref>
• <ref>See Wulf Arlt's reconstruction in Rankin.{{sfn|Rankin|Hiley|1993|loc="Stylistic layers in eleventh-century polyphony": 102–141}} A systematic discussion of the various treatises and of the examples given in chant manuscripts is offered by {{harvtxt|Fuller|1990}}.</ref>
• <ref>See the reconstructions of the Winchester Troper organa by Susan Rankin, and those of the French organa by Wulf Arlt.{{sfn|Rankin|1993}}</ref>

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:35, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@Aza24: In Windows browsers you can search a string on the current page with Ctrl+f. The default source editor and toolbar has a search feature after clicking "Advanced" and the magnifying glass at the far right. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:40, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Can i create my own article?

Hello Wikipedia, can i really create my own article? 13:25, 26 November 2021 (UTC)Lil Moon Teddy13:25, 26 November 2021 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lil Moon Teddy (talk • contribs) 13:23, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@Lil Moon Teddy: That really depends on what you mean by [your] own article. An article about yourself is strongly discouraged, and even if you successfully create an article, you would not have any claim of ownership on it. There's more info at WP:YFA that will help you think about what makes a successful article. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 14:46, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@Lil Moon Teddy, Welcome to Wikipedia! If you mean an article about yourself, no. If you mean an article about something there's no WP-article about, maybe, there are RULES. It's something that's easier if you have edited WP for awhile and learned how stuff work around here.

If you have an article-topic in mind, read WP:GNG. If you conclude "Yeah, I have those sources, no problem!", move on to WP:YFA. WP:TUTORIAL and WP:ADVENTURE can be of help. Good luck! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:51, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi, @Lil Moon Teddy: while you are allowed to create an article, it is surprisingly difficult. I strongly suggest you get experience first: start simply by fixing typos perhaps and build up from there, learning as you go. The replies above give some great links with detailed guidance about your first article, and I suggest you read them all, probably a couple of times (there is a lot there).--Gronk Oz (talk) 15:08, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Ok thanks!Lil Moon Teddy (talk) 14:57, 27 November 2021 (UTC)Lil Moon Teddy

Homages or easter eggs page for a specific film

Well, I watched Joker (2019 film), and I wonder why there is not any page and section to show homage and easter eggs in Joker; it adapt many source from multiple film, Martin's and several batman films.

I know Wikipedia is not the list for the things just exist, they are reported by some reliable source, such as den of geek, Gamesrader, and Werner's. bro. Is there any consensus on this list of film? I would like to ask to participater in film project. --Reiro (talk) 14:09, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

One reason could be that Joker is a WP:GA, so stuff like WP:RS and WP:PROPORTION may be reasonably followed. I think this film got a lot of attention outside the usual fanbase, so there may be more WP:RS to chose from than usual, making den of geek etc unwanted. It does mention the Joker Stairs. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:42, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: Thanks for your answer and I agree all of consensus in Wikipedia. Well, just one small thing. Now Joker article includes this news story, introducing some homage source, such as "bad day" sentence from Batman: The Killing Joke, officer Debra Kane's name, Zorro, The Gay Blade, bat pole, etc. And also, Werner's bro Korea demonstrate 11 easter eggs from previous batman film, mainly The Dark Knight: police car scene, 'freak' word.[1](Korean)

I do not think that all of them are must included in Joker. Then, how about this? I guess, is it ok that Debra Kane the officer in 'cast' paragraph, and "bad day" sentence and TDK homage is described as notes in 'Writing' paragraph, like notes in 'plot' paragraph at MCU film articles? It do not harm any portion, just adding new neutral information; at least, in 'Writing' paragraph, TDK also is added as motive film.

And lastly, could I be provided page on RA list related on film or discussion? Thank you. Reiro (talk) 16:15, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@Reiro As I see it, you have 2 choices: Be WP:BOLD, or make a suggestion at the Joker talkpage and see if there's any response. Is this link what you want? Wikipedia:Requested articles/Arts and entertainment/Film, radio and television. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:21, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: I will take latter. I did not know Den of Geek is not RS, so initially I would like to request 'Reliable sources list'. (It's my mistake, sorry) Then, I will go to Joker talkpage. Thanks for your kindness! Reiro (talk) 16:28, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Reiro. There isn't a "reliable sources list" as such, for various reasons (one of which is that reliability is not always absolute: many sources are regarded as reliable for some kinds of information but not for others). But you can ask about a source at the reliable sources noticeboard, and search its archive to see if a source has been discussed before; and some sources that have often been asked about are listed at WP:RSNP. --ColinFine (talk) 17:57, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Submission Violation

Dear Wikipedia,

I contracted Jerry_Dan to use their Wikipedia editor's status to save me time in posting a biography for Charles Nathan. They violated your protocol and Fiverr's. They are no longer with Fiverr.

Please see the attached screenshot which Jerry_Dan sent to me. They said they submitted it to you, and I accepted what's on the screenshot as proof that they did.

Is it true? If so, how can I follow up on my own? I have no contact information for Jerry_Dan and Fiverr won't help.

Thanks for getting back to me right away on this. The whole idea was to save time, but now a lot of time has been wasted.

Today a Charles Nathan song was released throughout the world. We wanted his Wiki bio to be in place.

Please help!!!— Preceding unsigned comment added by Grednam (talk • contribs) 26 November 2021 17:18 (UTC)

Thanks,

Grednam Hello! I can say this much: the draft Draft:Charles Nathan (songwriter) exists. As you can see at the bottom, it has been submitted for review, meaning it's waiting for someone to decide if it is fit to become an actual article. As you can see at [2], it has been declined once alredy, a couple of weeks ago. It seems to me that it has not been improved much and will be declined again because of that. You are welcome to edit the draft. Pinging AngusWOOF if you have a comment. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:41, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

The draft that I reviewed was created and edited by Freddie ski, who has since been regarded to be a sockpuppet and has been banned. If you want to rewrite the person's article from scratch, you can do so at the draft. But the version you have posted there currently is the same as the previous editor's draft. It references primary sources / websites from the songwriter (legacy.com, ascap, BMI, amazon) or catalog database results (worldcat library entries). We need external news sources that are independent of the subject. So I suggest you rewrite it from scratch without using any of those websites and if the person is notable you should be able to find newspaper and magazine articles that cover the person's career in detail.

I'm not sure what to say about Jerry_Dan, Fiverr or that particular paid / compensated contract work arrangement. However, if you are associated with Nathan in any way (friend, family, colleague, agency, classmate, close fan), or are hiring someone to write up his bio then you are required to disclose your conflict of interest WP:COI. As you mentioned "We", and "wanting it to be in place", that seems to be the case, and I would respond with Wikipedia:There is no deadline. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 18:53, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

There is also a degree of copypasting from external sites,[3] and that is an absolute no-no around here. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:00, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

I have tagged the draft for speedy deletion as it was created by a sock of blocked user User:Orlaw66. Theroadislong (talk) 19:10, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@Grednam: It appears from your question that you (or someone) contracted with an organization named "Fiverr" to create Wikipedia content. While a lot of us volunteer unpaid editors don't particularly like this, it's not strictly prohibited by our rules as long as proper disclosures are made. However, it is not in our mandate or in our interest to spend our unpaid free time trying to help you in your interactions with those (paid) folks. We do not know and do not care who those people are, and a lot of such organizations appear to be less than reputable. The best we can do is to determine that any draft that did end up getting submitted is acceptable as a Wikipedia article. -Arch dude (talk) 21:27, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@Arch dude: Fiverr is essentially a modern-day classified ads service. It's at best a middleman. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 22:13, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Need to cancel donation

Hi I need to cancel my monthly donation, how do I do this thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C50:157F:E4AC:F593:9620:B12A:ADF6 (talk) 20:08, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

See WP:Contact us/Donors and contact the email address there for all donation-related enquiries. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 20:11, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

They will simply tell you to access the account from which the payments are made, eg your credit card account or bank account, and cancel the outgoing payment yourself. With the exception of direct debits, the payee normally has no control over your donations. Never set up a regular payment if you don't know how to cancel it.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:49, 27 November 2021 (UTC)