User talk:Bduke/Archive 14

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Precious anniversary

Precious
Two years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:29, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Happy First Edit Day!

Have a very happy first edit anniversary!

From the Birthday Committee, CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 08:33, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Hope you're not too old for a beer. Cheers, and thanks for all the work you've done here. Drmies (talk) 00:44, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

The Months of African Cinema Contest Continues in November!

Greetings,

Thank you very much for participating in the Months of African Cinema global contest/edit-a-thon, and thank you for your contributions so far.

It is already the middle of the contest and a lot have been achieved already! We have been able to get over 1,500 articles created in over fifteen (15) languages! This would not have been possible without your support and we want to thank you. If you have not yet listed your name as a participant in the contest page please do so.

Please make sure to list the articles you have created or improved in the article achievements' section of the contest page, so that they can be easily tracked. To be able to claim prizes, please also ensure to list your articles on the users by articles page. We would be awarding prizes to different categories of winners:

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Thank you once again for being part of this global event! --Jamie Tubers (talk) 10:30, 06 November 2020 (UTC)

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Thank you

I just saw that you have requested to resign as an admin. I don't think that our paths have crossed on Wikipedia, but I would like to say thank you for your contributions! Olivier (talk) 13:11, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. I am still active editing, but decided I was too old to be an admin. --Bduke (talk) 21:45, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

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George Orwell

"Stansky and Abrahams suggested that Ida Blair move to England in 1907..." Surely this should be "moved"? MFlet1 (talk) 08:21, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

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Welcoming New Volunteers to Wikiproject Nigeria

Note that the dates observed in bold under the underlined title of message help reflect and clarify the most current & oldest messages with the most current being at the top and the oldest being at the bottom.

Welcoming New Volunteers

(25/06/2021)

We hereby want to officially welcome new volunteers who have recently joined the collaborative project and have volunteered to work in WP:NIGERIA. The arrival of new volunteers is often associated with the confusion of “what to do” on their part, it is then behoove of us to treat them with care, guide them, and protect them from the general pitfalls a new editor would most usually fall into. We are also admonished to clean up after them if they err and encourage them, most especially when they are genuine editors with potential to do good work not just for us, but for the community as a whole. Once more, we hereby thank all new editors who have volunteered to work here and hope they enjoy their stay here. Requests for uncreated articles(24/1/2020) Greetings & a great weekend to you all. It would be great if the (Requests for uncreated articles) section in our wiki project can be attended to & at least one article be created this weekend as some requests have been pending since 2016. I believe this would be pivotal to the encyclopedia as a whole & a means to get editors who have gone inactive to revive their Wikipedia activities.

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Peter Gill (chemist) moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Peter Gill (chemist), is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Laplorfill (talk) 02:25, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

After discussion with others, I decided that this person was not yet notable enough for an article, so I deleted the draft. I think he will be at some point in the not too distant future. --Bduke (talk) 10:37, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - August 2021

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About my father’s name, which is Spelled wrong

Need to change it and I can’t Greenorchid74 (talk) 22:08, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

OK, but where is it? I need to know the article and the wrong spelling to find it, and then I need to know the right spelling to fix it. --Bduke (talk) 22:14, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Under Fereydoun Asgarzadeh Last name is not Asgharzadeh There is no H after G Greenorchid74 (talk) 22:20, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

My father is was a National soccer head coach of Iranian National team. I need to put all his information there. Is not complete. Whoever started didn’t know much. His last name is totally wrong. Asgarzadeh is correct Asgharzadeh is wrong. No H after G. It would sound totally different name Greenorchid74 (talk) 22:24, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Give me a link to the article where this spelling is wrong. I'm busy. I do not have time to search for it. Find the name of the article and type it between [[ ]] here. That links straight to the article.--Bduke (talk) 23:08, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
Is Iran national football team the right article? I see nothing there about your father. --Bduke (talk) 23:20, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
All good. I have fixed it for you. --Bduke (talk) 05:31, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

From one Brian to another ...

Dear Brian,

I presume that you, "Brian J Duke", also answer to "Brian Salter-Duke", and that we have been colleagues within the Australian physical/theoretical chemistry scene for many years. I knew of your presence in Darwin and our paths may have crossed at an RACI Physical Chemistry Division meeting or two. I see that you have published with Fritz Schaefer (wnom I knew in the 1970s & 1980s) and with my good friend Leo Radom (who was 2 years behind me at Sydney; he also sat next to my wife Marilyn in primary school - they were the smallest kids in their class!). I did not know that you had moved to Monash U quite some time ago.

Thanks for your helpful comments. I'm not too sure what you mean by "you have to be very careful about editing your own article". I have read Wikipedia's instructions in that regard and have tried to make my article rigorously factual and to avoid self-aggrandisement. The main reason why I wanted to update my Wikipedia entry is that it was originally written some years ago without my knowledge by an unidentified colleague and was neither accurate nor up-to-date. (I have an idea who it might have been; he was well-intentioned but probably did it to promote one of his publications.)

I've made some further refinements to my article since yesterday (including two extra references and some format corrections). Perhaps you would care to look at my latest effort and suggest any possible improvements or a better way to deal with the "self-publishing" aspect that Wikipedia discourages.

Kind regards, Brian OrrOnkusorrus (talk) 06:42, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

This Month in Education: August 2021

This Month in Education

Volume 10 • Issue 8 • August 2021

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About This Month in Education · Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · For the team: Romaine 13:37, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Tuxworth

Not following your edit here. He did change allegiance - he quit the CLP and founded the rebel NT Nationals. No party was renamed? The Drover's Wife (talk) 08:53, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

You are right. I got that wrong. My memory from my days in the NT was not up to it. --Bduke (talk) 11:15, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Editor of the Week

Editor of the Week
Your ongoing efforts to improve the encyclopedia have not gone unnoticed: You have been selected as Editor of the Week in recognition of your integrity and years of service. Thank you for the great contributions! (courtesy of the Wikipedia Editor Retention Project)

User:Valereee submitted the following nomination for Editor of the Week:

I nominate Bduke to be Editor of the Week for integrity and service. Bduke started editing in 2005 and became an admin in 2007. Over time he has made nearly 30,000 edits and created almost 150 articles. Last year he requested his mop be retired because he was having memory issues. Given how many sysops cling to that mop by making an edit a year, I feel like this is deserving of recognition and thanks not only for the long productive service but also for the integrity. Thank you, Bduke. This nomination was seconded by User:Serial Number 54129 and User:Davey2010.

You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week: 

{{User:UBX/EoTWBox}}
Bduke is a Yorkshireman
Bduke
 
Editor of the Week
for the week beginning August 29, 2021
Bbuke has edited Wikipedia since 2005 and has been a quality administrator for many, many years. He has created nearly 150 articles and has 30000 edits in that time. When he recently requested his mop be retired, he displayed the type of rare integrity and mentorship that other members of the admin corps might take a lesson from.
Recognized for
long and productive service
Submit a nomination

Thanks again for your efforts! ―Buster7 ☎ 22:09, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Welcome to WP:LABOUR

It's always very exciting to have experience editors join the Wikipedia:WikiProject Organized Labour! I was thinking of organizing a Wikipedia Labor Edit-a-thon again this November or so, if you would be interested in joining! ~ Shushugah (he/him • talk) 22:41, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Very likely, but it depends when it is. --Bduke (talk) 02:32, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Andrew Crowther Hurley moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Andrew Crowther Hurley, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Modussiccandi (talk) 08:27, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Copyright problem on Draft:Andrew Crowther Hurley

Content you added to the above draft appears to have been copied from https://www.science.org.au/fellowship/fellows/biographical-memoirs/andrew-crowther-hurley-1926-1988, which is not released under a compatible license. Copying text directly from a source is a violation of Wikipedia's copyright policy. Unfortunately, for copyright reasons, the content had to be removed. Content you add to Wikipedia should be written in your own words. Please let me know if you have any questions. — Diannaa (talk) 12:10, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - October 2021

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12:12, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – October 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2021).

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Page deletion discussion for Harlan Brothers

Hello. First, thank you for your kind words and your approach to dealing with my page deletion issue. I think I understand the problems involved and I'm endeavoring in good faith to address the community’s valid concerns. I know that I am not the only person who thinks it's pretty unusual that an amateur can make mathematical discoveries that were overlooked by academia for 350 years in the case of e, and sometime in the 11th century for Pascal's triangle. Ironically, many of my results appear on the Wikipedia pages related to e and Pascal’s triangle! This is to say nothing of my well-documented results in fractal geometry, results that are respected by giants in the field (yes, I could document this, but it’s probably not appropriate).  :)

At any rate, I’ve now been asked by an editor not to edit my page any further due to WP:COI. The problem is that the tide appears to be against my page at this point and there is still a great deal that can be done to further improve the article. If you haven’t seen it recently, I would value your feedback - you are clearly a well-respected editor. Is there any proscription against my working with an editor to improve an article provided the parties are virtual strangers? Thank you again. GiantSteps (talk) 00:05, 3 October 2021 (UTC)GiantSteps

It is absolutely clear that you should not be editing the article. You working with me would also probably be seen as exceptional and particular so, since I know very little about the subject matter. Also at 82 I have probably forgotten what I did know. I "voted" to keep the article, and I think it might be kept. I am not really a mathematician. I do have a degree from the UK Open University in Maths but it was only a pass degree as I moved overseas and could not continue to Honours. So, sorry, I do not think I can help you, but I will have another look at the article. --Bduke (talk) 00:41, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

The Boat Race

I reverted your edit to The Boat Race as the quote from the book was accurate: https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Missee_Lee/3qAMBAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22Camblidge+won+and+evellybody+happy%22&pg=PT192&printsec=frontcover --David Biddulph (talk) 05:51, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

OK, but it is totally stupid to keep a spelling error. How will readers know it is accurate from the book? --Bduke (talk) 05:59, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
I have not read the complete book but I assume that Missee Lee is a Chinese character, and the wording presumably reflects her Chinese accent. The words are in quote marks to show that they are a quote, and a reference is given to the chapter of the book. I have expanded that ref by including the Google Books link. --David Biddulph (talk) 06:09, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
Maybe, but I still think we should spell things correctly for the reader.--Bduke (talk) 06:14, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
We don't change the wording of quotes, but if you think it's necessary you could add Template:Sic. --David Biddulph (talk) 07:46, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Andrew Crowther Hurley has been accepted

Andrew Crowther Hurley, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

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Proposed deletion of Bello Bako Dambatta

Notice

The article Bello Bako Dambatta has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

No evidence of notability, single source is an online who's who where people are invited to send in their own CV and which has, according to their own "about" page, "the biographical information of over one million distinguished Nigerians", which indicates that it isn't really very selective. No Google News sources, very few general sources[1].

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Fram (talk) 07:50, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Bello Bako Dambatta for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Bello Bako Dambatta is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bello Bako Dambatta until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

Fram (talk) 08:04, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject Scouting Newsletter: October 2021

WikiProject Scouting | October 2021

It is with sadness that we note the passing of Jim Howes. Throughout his life, Jim worked to make the world a better place. WikiProject Scouting now has no administrators listed as willing to help the WikiProject. If you are an administrator and are willing to help, please let us know here.

Things to watch for:


Other ways to participate:

--evrik (talk) 15:12, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious
Three years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:15, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Happy First Edit Day!

Have a very happy first edit anniversary!

From the Birthday Committee, CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 01:13, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Have a very happy first edit anniversary!

From the Birthday Committee, Bobherry Talk Edits 14:13, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – November 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2021).

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  • Phase 2 of the 2021 RfA review has commenced which will discuss potential solutions to address the 8 issues found in Phase 1. Proposed solutions that achieve consensus will be implemented and you may propose solutions till 07 November 2021.

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This Month in Education: November 2021

This Month in Education

Volume 10 • Issue 11 • November 2021

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About This Month in Education · Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · For the team: ZI Jony 16:19, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

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Scout Movement definition: Are Cubs, Beavers and Squirrels part of the Scout Movement?

There has always been some confusion between the Scout Movement and the Scout section. There have over the years in different countries and different times been a variety of Scout sections. When I was a boy long ago in England the sections were Cub Scouts, Scouts, Senior Scouts and Rover scouts. These sections are all equally parts of the Scout Movement, and in many countries are sections of a Scout Group. One section is not more important than the other sections. They are all equally important. Beaver Scouts and Squirrel Scouts are just new sections. --Bduke (talk) 23:17, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Brian, Who told you that Cubs were part of the Scout Movement? I'm sorry you believed them. There were Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts and the Scout Movement was well established before Wolf Cubs were started. How did Cubs and later programs become part of the already existing Scout Movement? Who re-defined the Scout Movement?

Baden-Powell wanted a very distinct and separate Wolf Cub organization to not detract from the Scout Movement and referred to the Wolf Cub Movement. Wolf Cubs were only ever a feeder program. Many Scout troops had other associated programs for younger children. Were they also part of the Scout Movement? Who says Cubs are and the others aren't?

One of the long-running arguments as to when the Scout Movement began is whether the participants at Baden-Powell's 1907 Brownsea Island camp were or were not Boy Scouts. The camp was referred to as "Boy Scouts Camp" and "Scouts' Camp" and the boys were trained as scouts in scouting but did not make the Scout Promise and were not invested as Boy Scouts. Similarly, others who had taken-up scout training and scouting before Baden-Powell's 1908 book had not made the Scout Promise. Yet, if this is the distinction, Cubs, Beavers and Squirrels do not make the Scout Promise.

Not everything done by Scout organizations is Scouting. The Boy Scouts of America run Learning for Life programs whose participants are not Scouts and the program does not use the Scout Promise and Scout Law. Not everything The Scout Association does is Scouting. Cubs, Beavers and now Squirrels are age training sections of The Scout Association, not the Scout Movement. The Scout Movement is a movement of ideals, activities and experiences not an organization with "sections". Cubs, Beavers, Squirrels and other programs exist and may, as you say, be "equally important". However, the Scout Movement was well established before Wolf Cubs were started by The Scout Association and there no evidence or necessity that the Scouts and Scout Movement were re-defined or somehow changed to include Wolf Cubs rather than just both existing. There is the Scout Movement and some Scout organizations, like the Scout Association also run other programs including Cubs, Beavers and now Squirrels. The programs were re-branded Cub Scouts and branded Beaver Scouts and Squirrel Scouts to play on the notoriety of the name of the Scouts and to suggest a connection but there is no necessary connection as evidenced by the fact the programs previously didn't exist while the Scouts and Scout Movement were already well established and by some Scout organizations not adopting the programs. As the programs are run by Scout organizations, there is some confusion that these programs are Scouts and part of the Scout Movement.115.42.14.188 (talk) 09:15, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

I just do not get this. The Scout Movement started with what we now call the Scout section. Later Cubs (sometime called Cub Scouts), Senior Scouts, Rover Scouts and various other named sections in countries other than the UK were started. They are all part of the Scout movement. A Scout Jamboree is a Scout movement event. A Rover Moot is a Scout movement event. In 1957 they were held at the same time at the same place, Sutton Park, in the UK. I was there. A friend of mine was in the central support Group for the Jamboree, Moot and Indaba (for leaders of all sections). Lots of other events are organised that covers all sections. Scouting in bigger than the Scout Section. --Bduke (talk) 12:23, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
"Who re-defined the Scout Movement?". B-P did! --Bduke (talk) 12:25, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Brian, I doubt that you "do not get this." You used be academically bright, analytical and scientific, and even tout yourself as a sceptic. Why do you want to promote acceptance of what is clearly propaganda? Linden wouldn't have just accepted and would have been questioning and cutting. I know that if you accepted something you were told and inculcated in as a child and believed it for so long, that it becomes part of your ... chemistry. However, when we grow-up, and in a world with far more information now available, we sometimes need to question what we were led to believe. Some lose their religion and become atheists, a few have kept believing in their lord (Baden-Powell) and still praise him but B-P was BS. He wrote a book that inspired a movement but the boys, girls and their adult leaders were the movement and Baden-Powell was not the only inspiration or the forever-font of the movement. Many of Baden-Powell's ideas were never adopted, let die, quietly dropped or changed, even by his own Scout Association organization. B-P didn't define and run the movement like some private fiefdom or a cult guru, no matter how much he wanted to control and manipulate it for his own ego and fame such as, like a totalitarian dictator, having himself proclaimed "Chief Scout of the World" by "popular" acclamation in a well orchestrated and rehearsed "spontaneous" grand show event. Baden-Powell set-up his Scout Association, after the Scout Movement was already started and spreading.

I doubt you are being candid.

  1. For starters, you claimed "When I was a boy ... the sections were Cub Scouts ..." but I'm sure in your day they were Wolf Cubs.
  2. You respond assertively (with exclamation mark) that B-P re-defined the Scout Movement to include Wolf Cubs but by that you accept that the already exiting Scout Movement had to be changed and re-defined if Wolf Cubs became part of it.
  3. If, as you say, B-P re-defined the Scout Movement to include Wolf Cubs, who re-defined it, long after he was dead, to include Beavers and now the new Squirrels program?
  4. I think you are capable of understanding that the Scout Movement already existed before Wolf Cubs were started by The Scout Association.
  5. I think you are capable of understanding the distinction between the Scout Movement and the organization calling itself The Scout Association.
  6. You say "The Scout Movement started with what we[who?] now call the Scout section. Later Cubs ... and various other named sections ... were started" but I think you can understand that a movement doesn't have organizational structures like sections and these sections were programs of The Scout Association not the Scout Movement.

Brian, Rethink everything you were led to believe about the Scouts and don't just keep repeating it on Wikipedia and elsewhere out of belief, loyalty or embarrassment.

Unfortunately you identified yourself with others such as kintetsubuffalo, DiverScout and Gadget850 who are on watch lists and "disappeared" from Wikipedia (see https://wikipediocracy.com/2013/07/15/meet-the-editors-kintetsubuffalo/). You even recently sent greetings in attempt to maintain contact. You used to gang-up with them on Wikipedia to maintain the propaganda lines in Scout articles.115.42.14.188 (talk) 01:45, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Well, you obviously know me, but I but not know you. I still think that it makes no sense, when you have a Scout Group with several sections, to say that that only the Scout Section is part of the Scout Movement.[why?] It makes more sense to say that all sections, and the Group, are part of the Scout Movement. The fact that other sections were created after the Scout section is not relevant.[why?] The meaning of the "Scout Movement" has changed over time. I do not know why kintetsubuffalo, DiverScout and Gadget850 have disappeared from Wikipedia, but I do know that they made a major contribution to Scouting articles on wikipedia. Did you know that I have not been involved with Scouting for decades, except for Scouting articles here. --Bduke (talk) 03:57, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Brian, You have been inculcated to think a particular way. Why would "Wolf Cubs" be Scouts? If someone starts a program and calls the participants Bug Scouts, it doesn't make the participants Scouts, they are just Bug Scouts. You talk of a "Scout Group with several sections'" but they are Scout Groups with Scouts in a Scout Troop and senior Scouts by whatever name, together with other non-scout programs such as Cubs. Why, just because it is a Scout Group or Scout association couldn't it operate non-scout programs? Brian, go back to your science training and don't embellish facts and draw relationships and conclusions where there are none. Who told you Cubs were Scouts? Why do you choose to believe them?115.42.14.188 (talk) 07:05, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

You have claimed to know me and my deceased wife, Linden. I am not prepared to discuss this further with you, unless you tell me who you are. I am sure you can find my email address or phone number and let me know privately who I am interacting with. Otherwise I will ignore you. --Bduke (talk) 07:19, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Let me add that I am an experienced wikipedian. I was an admin for several years but resigned as an admin because I thought I was getting too old. Not many admins do that. As a result, I am suspicious of people who edit Wikipedia without creating an account. Create an account and tell us something about who you are. --Bduke (talk) 07:42, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Brian, I believe you have been well intentioned but your edits and arguments about the Scout Movement have been based merely on opinions of "I still think" and "It makes more sense" drawing unfounded conclusions based on your inculcation in long-ago happy experiences rather than true logic. I do not claim to know you but I have read some of Linden's works and of her activism and know of you from your Wikipedia edit record. I probably would have enjoyed private conversations and debates with you but, given your long association with those mentioned above, I would not risk closer connection. I want to keep the focus on edits and facts rather than create a persona on Wikipedia and join-in Wiki group gangs of the like-minded. As demonstrated by those mentioned above, many Wikipedia personas are false and the groups attract those with other motives and provide them with a front. Rather than resorting to ignoring, I am happy to engage with you about Wikipedia edits.115.42.0.120 (talk) 00:46, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying many points. However, I am still puzzled why you are unhappy about the WP posts of kintetsubuffalo, DiverScout and Gadget850. I see that DiverScout just got feed up with WP. I do not know why the other two have given up on Wikipedia but it quite common for editors to do a great job over several years and then to suddenly stop editing. My opinion of them is that all three did a great job on articles about Scouting and that information about Scouting on Wikipedia would be much worse without their contributions. What are your objections to these editors? I would be very interested to know that. Why do you think their personas are false? Most editors use something like a nickname. Why do you not register an username? Otherwise maybe your future edits will not be from 115.42.0.120. You do not have to give any information on your user page but it is a fixed page which will not disappear and other editors can always reach you on your talk page. Long time Wikipedia editors tend to be a bit suspicious of anon edits from IP addresses, mainly because they think that their comments may simply not reach the editor. Nevertheless I am happy to discuss edits with you. What areas of WP are you most interested and knowledgeable in? --Bduke (talk) 02:48, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
Let me just add that we should move our discuss away from Talk:Squirrel Scouts (The Scout Association) or any talk page of an WP article. If we fix a place I will move our discussion here to whatever neutral place we select. We could use my talk page if you like or I think I could create a subpage of my talk page. --Bduke (talk) 02:58, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
As you see, I have moved the discussion here and will delete the rest of the discussion at Talk:Squirrel Scouts (The Scout Association) when you make an edit here indicating that you have seen the new place for our discussion. --Bduke (talk) 06:17, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
You have argued that the Scout Movement was well established before Wolf Cubs were started. Indeed you are correct, but it seems to me that when Wolf Cubs were started the term "Scout Movement" widened it's scope. I am sure that in countries where Scout Groups exist having sections for some of Scouts, Cubs, Senior Scouts, Rover Scouts, etc., the various group committees, the Group Scout Leader and other leaders do not think only the Scout section is part of the Scout Movement. They think all sections are part of the Scout Movement. That is obvious from my experience of Scouting.--Bduke (talk) 06:41, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

You stated (my comments added):

You have argued that the Scout Movement was well established before Wolf Cubs were started. Indeed you are correct, but it seems to me[opinion] that when Wolf Cubs were started the term "Scout Movement" widened it's scope.[how?] I am sure[opinion] that in countries where Scout Groups exist having sections for some of Scouts, Cubs, Senior Scouts, Rover Scouts, etc., the various group committees, the Group Scout Leader and other leaders do not think[opinion] only the Scout section is part of the Scout Movement. They think[opinion] all sections are part of the Scout Movement. That is obvious from my experience[opinion] of Scouting.

This is inculcated belief not supported by fact or logic. That many others are also misled does not make it true.115.42.1.13 (talk) 21:42, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

I have removed your edits in sections signed by me. You are free to make comment below which are signed by you, but you are not free to alter what I write and sign. Please get a user name and understand how Wikipedia works. Also see https://educalingo.com/en/dic-en/scout-movement which says "During the first half of the 20th century, the movement grew to encompass three major age groups for boys". That supports what I wrote above. --Bduke (talk) 22:41, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

My apologies for the in-line comments. I think you would be well aware that the Educalingo entry was copied directly from a former edit of the Wikipedia article on Scouting. As I stated above, "That many others are also misled does not make it true." It may even have been your own Wikipedia edit that you claim "supports what [you] wrote above". An article based on others' claims that are based on others' claims, etc with no original reasoned factual basis would not pass peer review. You know better than to try and claim to rely on such pathetic argument. You argue in circles as you previously suggested the same thing, that the Scout Movement "grew" or "changed" but you have not provided any explanation of how that change supposedly occurred other than to claim Baden-Powell changed the definition, as if he was some lord or god who defined the world. Imagine an academic review panel rolling their eyes if not rolling in laughter upon reading such nonsense pathetic argument that Baden-Powell changed the definition. When challenged, if Baden-Powell re-defined the Scout Movement to include Wolf Cubs, then who, long after his death, re-defined the Scout Movement to include ever more juvenile programs, you had no response. For a self-proclaimed sceptic you are really desperate to believe in your lord and his organization's claims in which you were inculcated. Brian, I have debated with you because I recognize your long efforts on Wikipedia and thought you may be worth the effort. For the sake of others who read your edits, challenge yourself as to your beliefs.115.42.1.13 (talk) 01:38, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

OK, I take back " "Who re-defined the Scout Movement?". B-P did!" but he certainly did as far as the UK is concerned because he was Chief Scout of the UK at the time. I just do not get what you are arguing. For the whole of my adult life, it has been clear to me that the sections have equal status as part of the Scout Movement. You have not convinced me otherwise. Go and ask some Group Scout Leaders whether only the Scout section is part of the Scout Movement or are all the sections part of the Scout Movement. I am sure they will tell you that Cubs, Rovers, and other sections are all part of the Scout Movement. As I indicated above the 1957 joint Jamboree, Rover Moot and Indaba was where some of the sections (not Cubs) from all over the world came together to celebrate 50 years of the Scout Movement. I was there. That is how the event was thought of. --Bduke (talk) 03:48, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

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