Talk:TransPennine Express

Duplicated effort

This is a duplication of what is being developed at Draft:TransPennine Trains. I suggest we combine efforts. 10mmsocket (talk) 12:06, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:TransPennine Express which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 14:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Status of the withdrawal of the Nova 3 trains

Use this talk page to discuss the withdrawal of the Nova 3 trains and how the information of the withdrawal should be added to the article and whether this information can be added based on the sources we have. This is related to the teahouse talk here. I am under the impression based on what I've read about verifiable sources that the sources from August and September where TransPennine confirmed the withdrawal of the trains are valid sources that the trains have been withdrawn (I'm happy to be proven wrong). Some editors such as @Danners430 disagree with this stance and believe that a recent source is needed confirming that the withdrawal did go ahead. This is why I have opened this discussion (based on recommendations on the teahouse talk) as the issue seems to just keep going back and forth between edits Alexbrassington (talk) 21:30, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Just a quick note - since the discussion was brought up, I've been searching anew for sources… I have come across this, that theoretically they are still with TPE, if unused… https://gb.readly.com/magazines/railways-illustrated/2023-12-05/655e0a7e4d4b683b76122bb1

I haven't been able to find anything that says they actually have been withdrawn though Danners430 (talk) 21:38, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

This is interesting. It does at least confirm that they are no longer in passenger service for the foreseeable future. It does call into question how to convey that on Wikipedia though Alexbrassington (talk) 21:42, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd argue they're not "out of service" since theoretically they could be brought back at a moment's notice, especially while crews still sign them Danners430 (talk) 21:57, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

I agree that since crews still sign the Nova 3s and they could be brought back into service at any point they are not "out of service".
Given the Nova 3s could be used AD-HOC I feel they should be in the current fleet table and the past fleet table should be removed. Maurice Oly (talk) 21:00, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. However, it would be amiss to completely ignore what's been happening - a simple note saying that TPE had intended to remove them from service would likely suffice, since that's what we have sources for. Danners430 (talk) 21:11, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

I've updated this article, British Rail Class 68 and British Rail Mark 5A with a variation of the following:

TransPennine Express expressed their intention to withdraw the Nova 3 sets from the December 2023 timetable change; however the sets are still leased by TPE until May 2024, and remain in storage.

Danners430 (talk) 21:30, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

They are considered withdrawn by TPE, as demonstrated by the TPE webpage I linked to the article, now reverted, they are currently in storage and not operating passenger services Lner12345 (talk) 21:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Withdrawn isn't quite the same as not in regular service though - TPE can call on the sets any time they like should they be needed, especially while driver competency exists... Danners430 (talk) 21:06, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

What, with the class 68s having gone back to DRS, can you not just admit defeat? Lner12345 (talk) 21:07, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

"Defeat"? Not entirely sure what you mean by that... This isn't exactly a battle... This is Wikipedia, and we're trying to get a consensus. Language like that isn't helping anyone's cause.

And the 68s have been returned... where's the source for that? Danners430 (talk) 21:10, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

You're the only one trying to claim they haven't been withdrawn, flying in the face of consensus and fact, consensus but one. Lner12345 (talk) 21:14, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above was myself discussing with @Maurice Oly and @Alexbrassington about the best way to approach this topic. I'm not about to get into accusations - I'm here for constructive discussions. If you can't bring these, then I see no point in responding. Danners430 (talk) 21:15, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

I have brought citations for their withdrawal, are these not acceptable? Lner12345 (talk) 21:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

The source from TPE's website merely confirms what we already know, that they're not in regular passenger service anymore. It does nothing about the discussion we've had above, that they can theoretically be called into service at a moment's notice since they're in warm storage, still leased by TPE, and traction knowledge still exists. Danners430 (talk) 21:38, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

There's no source anywhere, sadly (I hope one crops up soon!) that explicitly states they've been withdrawn… the TPE website just says what TPE consider them as… it's a bit of a weird one, but I wouldn't be happy using it as the sole evidence to say they were fully withdrawn. Danners430 (talk) 21:40, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

You wouldn't be happy using the company website to say they've been withdrawn? Lner12345 (talk) 21:46, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

In fact, I say that… then open the most recent RAIL and find it published there - that they have been withdrawn. So time to make some edits - please hold while I finish my sandwich and open my browser! Danners430 (talk) 21:47, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Lner12345 (talk) 21:51, 29 December 2023 (UTC)