Talk:Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross

'Incorrect spelling'

I would like to bring up that "Sylphide" is totally not a reasonable reading of the kana shi-ru-fi-ru-do. I offer Sherfield, Robert Morgenstern offers Shrewfield: http://www.artemisgames.com/robotech/Research/SCross/GlorieMecha/Shrewfield.html 204.176.49.45 21:13, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

That's because that's the wrong kana. According to the Pioneer DVD liner notes and the Special Guidebook from This is Animation The Select series, the kana is shi-ru-fi-i-do. It's "Shrewfield" that's not a reasonable transliteration of the kana.

Egan Loo 21:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

'Information not present in anime'

If you watch the DVD release by ADV, there is never any mention of:

The terraforming of Glorie. (Probably with good reason. It was good enough for the Zor, wasn't it?)

The reason the Zor left Glorie and went elsewhere.

Whether ALL the Zor are returning to Glorie, or whether some remained behind on their adopted home planet elsewhere.

Why Earth is out of the picture.

Mars and Jupiter.

...so, if you're the author, can you provide references to back up the information on these things?

...and, as for spelling, perhaps it should be rendered as close to phonetically as possible. "Glory." Then, the main characters would be "Jonna" and "Syfooreeto."

I'm not the writer of those parts of the article, but all that information is in the Pioneer DVD liner notes. ADV actually did translate, not perfectly but serviceably, that information and put it in the liner notes for ADV's later DVD box. The kana for Glorie has an "e" vowel at the end. The kana for Jeanne ends with an "n" consonant and a silent "u," and is the kana for that common French name. The kana for Seifreit happens to be the kana for that common German name.

Egan Loo 21:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

See history Egan wants the sentence The English-subtitled Southern Cross DVD release by Harmony Gold and ADV Films incorrectly calls the story's home planet Glorie (the Old French spelling) by the Modern French spelling "Gloire." - after he rejected the removal of it and still provided no basis for the statement of correctness in the article, I tried a compromise phrasing, and mistakenly reversed the terms. --zippedmartin 07:50, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

The following was incorrectly added to this article:

The English subtitled Southern Cross DVD release by Harmony Gold and ADV Films transcribes the story's home planet グロリエ (gurorie) as Glorie (the Old French spelling), arguably it should be given by Modern French spelling "Gloire."

The DVD release does not transcribe the home planet with the correct Glorie spelling. It transcribes the planet with the incorrect "Gloire" spelling. The statement above is factually incorrect. Egan Loo 06:42, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

As noted in the edit summaries, the Glorie spelling has been verified by Steve Yun of Harmony Gold, but it was too late in the production to correct the spelling in the subtitles and packaging. Egan Loo 06:46, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

This is not a quibble over whether you are 'correct' or not, or questioning your history with localising anime etc, but rather that if you are going to make definite statements you need to provide some basis for them other than your own personal experience. It might be that line is stating the bleeding obvious to someone familiar with the differences between old and modern french and how they get transcribed into japanese, but as it stands it adds nothing to the article and makes little sense. My problems with this:

• There is no spelling of the planet in roman to my recollection in the anime. Even if there were it would probably be right under a sign saying 'target rock!'. Japanese is in japanese script, unless it's a very common word or the creators have explicitly said something, see no reason to believe there is any 'correct spelling' in roman of an invented planet name.
• You imply there is a 1-1 relationship between foreign words and katakana transcriptions, glorie is グロリエ is glorie / gloire is グルワール is gloire - this is obviously not true. A brief look for the general meaning of グロリエ mostly turned up the surname Grolier.
• My french dict. gives the IPA pronuc. of gloire as [glwar], and isn't good enough to tell me historical pronuc. - but the vowel [o] seems a stretch, which is what ロ implies.

In short, I'm happy to believe that there was an error in transcribing back if you provide either an interview where the writer says he's an old-french geek, or you just give some proper lingustic basis for believeing one transcription is more right than the other. Alternatively, accept a change of the sentence that attributes the belief of incorrectness to a relevant party, such as one of your Harmony Gold mates, preferably with an external reference to support it. WP:CITE isn't there just to annoy people, it's to clarify articles and generally make wikip more useful. --zippedmartin 07:50, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

To address the linguistic issues:

• Among other places, it is spelled with "-ori-," not "-oir-," in the original Pioneer LDC Japan DVD release (PIBA-1140). The classic r/l switching does appear in Southern Cross. (For example, the money from Glorie's sister colony Liberte is accidentally written once as "Riberte.") However, this is not relevant in this case--Southern Cross never spelled Glorie as "Gloire," "Groire," "Groile," or any other similar combination.
• I did not "imply" that there is a one-to-one relationship between foreign words and katakana transcriptions in general. I did state that there is a one-to-one relationship in this specific context of the Southern Cross anime—which is after all, the topic of this article. As an analogy, I would not imply that there is a one-to-one relationship between マクロス and Macross in general. (There is several companies called Macros and pronounced that way in Japan.) However, I will and do state there is a one-to-one relationship in the specific context of the Macross anime.
• In Modern French, the letter o is pronounced differently when it is paired with i; specifically, it is pronounced [wa], similarly to an English "wah." Old French is fascinating since, like Latin, modern linguists have only circumstantial evidence of the various pronunciations. However, from what is known, the Old French glorie's pronunciation would be transcribed as グロリエ. Compared to print, not many online resources cover this topic, but here is one:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/8716/chapter1.html

Egan Loo 10:07, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

The fact is that romanisations in japanese popular culture are really not bothered with accuracy - the audience reads the japanese, the roman is just there to be pretty. It's not just the [ɺ] issue - mistaking consonant clusters, directly transcribing vowels, and outright typos (such as misplacing an 'i' by one character :) are all common both in video and printed material. Roman is often used not as transcription/translation at all, note though that the PIBA-1140 release gives a prominant roman title that we're presumably not arguing is the 'correct' one, it is, like most roman script in japanese releases, pretty typography, and not to be taken as scripture. The title as given in R1 releases and for this article fairly preserves the 超時空騎団 header and omits the definite article.

The issue is not really that I believe transcriptions in japanese linear notes to be unreliable, but rather that just stating 'x is the correct spelling' without giving the source (release suchandsuch) deprives the reader of the option to understand (and perhaps question) the interpretation of the article writer.

Anyway, consistancy can be found everywhere, ADV seem to have stuck with 'Gloire', understandably as that's probably just the blurb off the box. Amusingly the Harmony Gold site actually uses 'Glory', which I guess you'd say would *have* to be グローリー. A fan site (one remarkably not run by you) uses 'Glorie', but with no qualification, and also uses 'Liberty' which I'm sure you'd disagree with on the grounds that リベルテ is not リバティー. Super trivial of course, everyone else has the sense not to care.

Your notes on french are fun, but see that what you've said there is repeating my IPA above. Source on old french is interesting. From what I can tell of their ad hoc transcription to an unnamed 'English', an 'o' seems to be suggested as [əʊ] [ɒ] or [ɔː] and 'ie' as [iːə] or [ɪe]. With グロリエ presumably intended to be realised something like [gəɺoɺie], that could be a possible transcription. All of which is entirely irrelevant I'm sure, makers are more likely to have glossed a dictionary word into something they prefered than researched the phonology of old french.

I see you've felt the need to return 'incorrectly' to the phrasing without attribution, despite having presented it here. You're obviously happy to weasel unverified statements, even to the point of tautology (is there such a thing as official fan speculation?), I don't see why you're insisting on an arbitrary statement when you obviously have basis for your belief that a particular transcription should be considered 'right'. :::As I understand it from the overly extensive disussion above, you base your rock of faith on:

• Certain Japanese releases have the romanisation 'glorie'
• The word 'gloire' would generaly be transcribed into katakana as グルワール, based on modern french phonology
• It's possible (but unverifiable) that the old french equivalent 'glorie' would be best transcribed as グロリエ
• You spoke to the R1 distro, and they agreed with the interpretation, but it was too late alter the release

Have I missed anything? Is it really that hard to write it into a paragraph that says the word is transcribed in roman as 'Glorie' on the PIBA-1140 release notes, and ascribes the assertion of incorrectness to a relevant source (even if it's you, which is slightly ridiculous). --zippedmartin 21:25, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Jeanne Fránçaix?

wtf? this means nothing, correct spelling is "Jeanne Français", where did you get that awful spelling?! Cliché Online (talk) 22:14, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Zor bioroids.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 03:10, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Groups 11 large.jpg

Image:Groups 11 large.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 22:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Marie Ange1l chara.jpg

Image:Marie Ange1l chara.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:34, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

plot summary

Is there a reason there is no plot summary? Just checking brain (talk) 15:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Moving information to another page

Since there's already a page for Macross in its Robotech context with the character names from that show as it was adapted into Robotech, shouldn't we move the the alternate Robotech character names from this page onto another page, or create one if no suitable page exists? As it is, the names of the Robotech characters don't belong here, and they do nothing but clutter up the page. They're not relevant to this anime, they're relevant to Robotech. SonRyo (talk) 11:19, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

About Lana's romantic life

It is mentioned that Lana develops a crush on lieutenant Brown and the two finally become a couple. I can not see this happening in the anime so can you please provide a reference? Shuzen Akuha (talk) 17:34, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

No reference was added so I deleted these parts. Shuzen Akuha (talk) 14:31, 9 July 2012 (UTC)