Talk:2022 California State Controller election

Betty Yee endorsement

Both Malia Cohen and Ron Galperin claim that outgoing California State Controller Betty Yee endorsed them. What's the proper procedure? --Shadow (talk) 22:52, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

References

Endorsement procedure

Is there a reason we do not accept endorsements cited from the candidates' own sources, especially since this is a low importance race and it's generally unlikely that they would lie, and especially because we accept own sources for the previous races and for races happening this year around the country?23.240.160.134 (talk) 16:53, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

There's a guideline on endorsements, see Wikipedia:Political endorsements. Even if other election pages have endorsements with self-published, primary sources, that doesn't mean that this one and future elections should either. Also, excessive endorsements can and do clutter articles to the point of making them unreadable, which is part of why that guideline page exists in the first place. —twotwofourtysix^{(talk || edits)} 04:59, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@74.104.222.2: There is a discussion about endorsement inclusion. Publicly declaring an endorsement is not enough to warrant inclusion per WP:ENDORSE. Where is the independent, reliable coverage in any of the endorsements you restored? All endorsements on OC Breeze are PR releases by Chen's campaign. And tweets in of themselves are not enough. — BriefEdits (talk) 00:43, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

• @50.227.112.186: You have also been pinged because you have expressed interest in the topic. — BriefEdits (talk) 01:00, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

I do not know who defines what is and is not considered appropriate to be included, but it isn't you. Tweets published by the person in question are enough and you know that quite well. It's the source, not the medium, that matters. And since you hold to WP:Endorsements like a Bible, "Lists of endorsements should only include endorsements which have been covered by reliable sources, which may include the organization's own website or official social media accounts. I'm sorry, but we both know that it is highly unusual for a campaign to outright lie about an endorsement, especially ones of these scales. Note that the endorsees mentioned have not at all objected to these claims. When a campaign puts out a post about an endorsement and bothers to create a graphic and ping the person they claim is being endorsed, they're usually prepared to back it up. Of course, if you would like to end this edit war (started by you), you can bring someone in.50.227.112.186 (talk) 05:43, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

@50.227.112.186: You are quoting the section of the WP:ENDORSE when it pertains to an organization, which individual politicians are not.

According to the second section of Endorsement by individuals, 2. Lists of endorsements should only include endorsements which have been covered by reliable independent sources. Furthermore, it states This means endorsements should not be sourced solely to a Tweet or Instagram post, for example. I'm not sure how to make this more simple and direct for you, but simply citing a candidate's social media post or personal website does not meet the criteria for inclusion. I don't touch the other endorsements, because they are mentioned by reliable independent sources (i.e. most mainstream newspapers).

Wikipedia is WP:NOTCATALOG. The website does not host a litany of information simply because it exists. The guidelines is not arguing the existence of such endorsements; it is asking for secondary sources to support its notability. (see twotwofourtysix's comment preceding these comments) — BriefEdits (talk) 18:28, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

One more thing, we can argue all day about which endorsements are actually true or not but you're missing the important point. Endorsements should be backed up by news sources because they have to be notable. Otherwise, it's just a race of which campaign gets to post the most amount of endorsements, straight onto Wikipedia. That's not how it should be and, particularly, listing Chen's endorsements straight from his social media feed gives undue weight to his campaign. (Note: I would still say this regardless of who the candidate is here.) —twotwofourtysix^{(talk || edits)} 15:21, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Also, regarding "it is highly unusual for a campaign to outright lie about an endorsement", you should simply look at the above section. Honestly, this focus on endorsements is ridiculous anyway but whatever. —twotwofourtysix^{(talk || edits)} 15:25, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

I will take this time to make the revert as I feel like there is a generally accepted consensus on what to include/not-include and that we have made a good effort to explain the purpose of the guideline. -- BriefEdits (talk) 18:28, 2 November 2022 (UTC)