Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Green Bay Packers Pro Bowl selections/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 11 March 2024 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of Green Bay Packers Pro Bowl selections[edit]

List of Green Bay Packers Pro Bowl selections (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:02, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for taking the time to review this nomination. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time a "Pro Bowl selection" by team list has been nominated at WP:FLC, and the table layout is updated to make it sortable. With all that said, I would appreciate any feedback or input, and will address any issues quickly. Cheers, « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:02, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by RunningTiger123[edit]

Figured I'd help out with this one after my comments at the Packers MVPs list.

  • "Northern Division" – never heard this usage, "North division" or "NFC North division" is probably better
  • "until 2014, until the NFL" → "until 2014, when the NFL"
  • "the highest voter-getters are named starters" → "the players with the most votes were named starters"
  • "the common thread" – don't think this is the right wording since the whole point is that it changed a lot; maybe try "a common option"
  • "every year since 1950 except for ten seasons" – I count nine? (Ten if you count the All-Star Games)
  • Spell out 10, 9, 8, and 4 in the last paragraph in the lead (MOS:NUMERAL)
  • Image captions are complete sentences, so use periods
  • "also playing in the January 1939 All-Star Game" – the Packers played in the 1940 game
  • "possibly best known in his role blocking for the famous Packers sweep" – citation needed or remove
  • "only selected for one Pro Bowl in his career after the 1964 NFL season" – wording is awkward and implies he was picked for more games before 1964
  • "a dynamic pass-catching duo in the 1960s" – citation needed or at the very least "dynamic" should not be used in WP:WIKIVOICE
  • "three of them he was the only Packers player selected" – "he was the only Packers player selected for three of them"
  • "became the third member of the Matthews family to be selected for a Pro Bowl..." – citation needed or remove
  • "Packers only representative" → "Packers' only representative"
  • Footnotes shouldn't have spaces between them and the word they follow (MOS:REFSPACE)
  • Refs. column should not be sortable
  • MVP background colors are too dark – need a 4.5:1 contrast ratio between link text and background to meet WCAG AA (MOS:COLOR)
    • Current ratios are 1.67:1 (game MVP) and 3.54:1 (league MVP) using Vector 2022 link colors – the lighter link colors mean backgrounds have to be very light to work and may need some trial-and-error (not trying to ramble but this is easily my least favorite part of the skin)
  • "NA" → "N/A" (MOS:ABBR)
  • Sort keys need to be set to enable correct date sorting in All-Star Game table (dates are automatically sorted correctly, but not when written as month-year only)
  • 1982 and 2004 seasons: Fix reference rowspan
  • Davante Adams' selection for the 2022 game was his fifth, not fourth
  • Optional: "# of All-Star Games/Pro Bowls with Packers" might look better in key instead of header

— RunningTiger123 (talk) 03:33, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RunningTiger123, thanks for the review. Two comments: (1) regarding the 10 seasons without a selection, that included 2024 originally, but Kenny Clark just got announced. When I updated the table I forgot to update the lead. (2) Will you check the colors to see if they are good? All other comments have been addressed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:41, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Colors are closer, but still not enough. I suggest #88FFFF   instead of #00FFFF   and #AFFFAF   instead of #00FF00  . RunningTiger123 (talk) 01:16, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done RunningTiger123. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:26, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support – RunningTiger123 (talk) 18:39, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey man im josh
  • Only includes the position that the player was selected for inclusion in the Pro Bowl. – This feels a bit clunky, what about something like "The position which the player was elected to the Pro Bowl for"?
  • None of the refs contain Wikilinks to the website/publisher. Some people choose to link in every ref while others choose to link the first mention
  • Ref 103 links to 2029 instead of 2019
  • For the image of Clay Matthews, perhaps you could end the sentence after Bruce Matthews, then start a new sentence to state that "Jake Matthews, the son of Bruce and cousin to Clay, later became the fourth." Just feels like it could be a bit better to start a new sentence than to stick that in brackets.
  • References don't verify that Henry Jordan (1961) was Pro Bowl MVP (the other Pro Bowl MVPs are verified)
  • Spot check on 15 (other) sources match what they are being cited for (spot checked more than I normally would based on the above)
  • I checked out the Green Bay's media guide and I wanted to note that this also confirms note E about John Martinkovic being a Pro Bowler in 1955 (page 481).
  • Do you think a separate table of "Most selections while with team" could be useful? I'd imagine an inclusion threshold of 5+ selections, which would be 14 players.

That's all I've got for now. My only issue is really just the ref formatting, otherwise it passes a source review. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:55, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review Hey man im josh. I have addressed all of the above except the following:
  • I don't link websites when using the "website" field. Maybe just a personal preference, but my understanding is that the only requirement is consistency.
  • I contemplated trying to add a new column for "Total selections", but with the sort function it doesn't really look very nice. I also contemplated a separate table, but it's already a long page as is. Idk, I guess I don't feel strongly either way, but lean towards not making the page any longer. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:21, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gonzo fan2007: Fair enough about the ref formatting, the references do include all of the relevant information from the targets, it was just the website/publisher aspect I was focused on, which you've of course addressed. Yeah I don't think a separate column for total sections would be ideal. I think the only way it works out is if you do it similar to the annual statistical leaders lists we have for the NFL, such as this. But like you said, it's a long page already and I understand the hesitance towards including such a list.
  • I see that you added a reference for the Henry Jordan bit I mentioned. Did you notice that it mentions "most-valuable lineman", as opposed to Pro Bowl MVP? What do you make of this? I found this from the NFL that mentions a back and lineman being selected, which is why Fred Carr received it it seems. Then I found this ref from 1962 Pro Bowl, which does confirm that he was selected. Not sure what to make of this, except that it does seem like two players were selected from the 1957 through 1972 Pro Bowls, with the exception of the 1962 Pro Bowl on PFR, which is clearly missing Henry Jordan. Do you think we need to make a clarification or explain a bit? I'm just looking into it now because I didn't understand the history of the Pro Bowl as well as I do now after reading this article and I had some questions.
  • 1970 should include ref 5 instead of 1969, as the 1969 row doesn't need any addition refs for verification while the 1970 does (I missed this, as I was checking the page against MVPs originally)
The clarification regarding the Pro Bowl isn't necessary for my support, but I'm kind of just musing based on some of our past discussions. Thanks. 16:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC) Hey man im josh (talk) 16:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. Jeez, the whole "Pro Bowl occurs the year after the season" has killed me with this list. Regarding the MVP, would a note suffice? Something explaining that Pro Bowl MVP was selected differently throughout the years? I'll contact PFR on Henry Jordan. They are usually pretty quick to reply. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:17, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just as extra, the note would say something like From 1951 to 1956, the MVP of the Pro Bowl was called the "Player of the Game". From 1957 to 1971, MVP Awards were given to two players: the best back and the best lineman. From 1972 to 2007, the award was again called the "Player of the Game". Since 2008, a Pro Bowl MVP Award has been given and starting in 2013 the MVP Award was handed out to two players: the best on offense and the best on defense. I would obviously need to cite it all, which isn't a small order, but you get the gist. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:59, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Makes sense to me. This is definitely a pain to clarify, that much I understand. Sorry for the excess work load but it's definitely been educational for me to review this list! Hey man im josh (talk) 20:02, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hey man im josh, I have added the note. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:45, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. Source review passed. Support! Hey man im josh (talk) 18:10, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dylan620

I'm starting an image review now. If I don't finish tonight, then I should be able to get it done tomorrow morning or early afternoon. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 00:39, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As promised:
  • I appreciate how well-illustrated this listicle is; I count 22 images! The only caveat is that I'm not certain if a second image of Aaron Rodgers is really necessary, although I understand why a second would be included, considering he holds the team record for most Pro Bowls.
  • Even taking the above minor reservation into account, each image adds encyclopedic value.
  • The caption for the lede image reads like a full sentence, and punctuation should probably be added accordingly. (There should be a period at the end, and I personally think it would be a good idea to add a comma before with 10 as well.)
  • Alt text checks out for the most part, although I think first names should be included alongside surnames.
  • Licenses and image sources mostly check out as well. The source for the James Lofton image is a dead link for which I can't seem to find an archived URL, but I did find the image on an Etsy listing which provides a year that corroborates with the license provided. I do have a couple reservations:
    • The alt text for the Eddie Lacy image states that he is riding a bicycle. This can indeed be seen in the original Flickr upload, but there is no sign of the bicycle in the cropped image which is used in the listicle. Maybe replace riding a bicycle with holding a sports drink bottle?
    • The caption for the Davante Adams image states that he was selected to four straight Pro Bowls. This is technically true due to the 2021 Pro Bowl's cancellation, but could be confusing because the table shows five consecutive selections for Adams. Maybe this caveat should be added to the caption, whether in writing or in reusing the footnote from 2021's row in the table?
Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 17:27, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Dylan620, I believe I have addressed all of your comments. The Adams caption was a typo, should be "five", fyi. The 2021 Pro Bowl was cancelled, but that didn't cancel out his selection as a Pro Bowler. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:45, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good to me Gonzo fan2007. Image review passes; support on images. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 17:52, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting. --PresN 15:05, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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