Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Xcbot

The following discussion is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. The result of the discussion was Denied.

xcbot

• (BRFA
• Approved BRFAs
• talk
• contribs
• count
• SUL
• logs
• page moves
• block log
• rights log
• flag)

Operator: Xiong Chiamiov

Automatic or Manually Assisted: Automatic.

Programming Language(s): Using AWB.

Function Summary: Use AWB to give welcomes to new users.

Edit period(s) (e.g. Continuous, daily, one time run):

Edit rate requested: 5? edits per min (I've never timed it)

Already has a bot flag (Y/N): no

Function Details: Using AWB to add Template:welcome0L1 to the top of user's pages, except those that already contain "welcome", "{{Username}}", or blocking notices.

Note: All welcome messages will bear my name. Also, any edits from this account right now are by me, manually, tweaking settings.

Discussion

Welcome bots have generally been discouraged as being "less personal" than a manual welcome. No technical problems seen but some users may object to automating welcoming -- Tawker 01:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

While not a reason for rejection, Tawker is correct about welcome bots. It will take considerable technical effort and discussion to make it work, but it is possible. In order to facilitate this process, please compare your task request to the recent Welcomebot task request. How does your bot compare technically with that proposed bot? Can you address the concerns here that were raised in that discussion? -- RM 16:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Let's see if I picked out all of the questions from welcomebot:

• safeguards against warning vandals or already {{usernameblocked}} users

It doesn't leave a welcome if {{username}} or "blocked" exists. I can add more as needed.

• A new user sees a warm fuzzy welcome, they're happy and the feel relaxed enough to ask questions or try this wiki thing out. They see a cold metal box, they're likely to turn around and run in the opposite direction

Ah, but do they know? It is signed as me, and redirects to my talk page. Only in the history does it show it isn't my normal account.

Aside: otherwise, I would sit reloading Special:Log/newusers and pasting in welcome templates. This actually seems better, IMHO.

• There are a few hundred/thousand new accounts every hour or so, which can possibly mean about 10 to a 1000 questions an hour.

Potentially, yes. However, it hasn't been in my experience that you get that many. And yes, I'm willing to answer questions.

'Nother point: I'm not planning on running this constantly. Rather, it is more of a "while I'm doing other things, I can run this" plan. So, it's not a maximum of 1000*24 questions/day.

• A welcoming editor must keep up with the new users he has welcomed.

Covered above. I believe I have done well with the questions I have received so far.

• Many new users are vandals looking for trouble, inviting every new account indiscriminately can mean inviting trouble, the bot must recognise IPs etc.

As far as IP recognization, it is going for new users, not IPs. I'm guessing though that this is meant for people mass-producing accounts. I have no answer to that, I don't think.

• the bot doesn't beat a more personalised greeting from a human editor to the punch

I'll get list from log with an offset. So, it could only go through users who have been around for approx. 5 days, or whatever.

• Doesn't welcome people before they have made several edits without receiving a vandalism warning on their talk page

Well, if they're vandalizing, they'll most likely have warning templates. See far above. If they haven't made any edits, perhaps they need to know to be bold and where to start, what to do?

• I always like the idea that a new user, likely imtimidated by the site and most users is welcomed by an actual user, one that they are likely to feel comfortable asking questions to. A bot just fails to do that

Addressed above, right? I've gotten distracted while writing this :p. The message points toward me. And I am an actual user.

Mmm, thought I should clarify: This is in no way meant to be a sort of replacement-for-a-MediaWiki-feature-that-should-be. It is just trying to help out the welcoming committee, much as anti-vandal bots help out us RC Patrollers. That is part of my "not cold" arguement; rather than being a bot rather than a human, it's a bot (completely supported by a human) instead of nothing. -- Xiong Chiamiov :: contact :: 00:22, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Let's see where to begin. First of all, I appreciate your effort to allieviate the concerns that have been raised. Given the nature of this bot, you're sure to need an extended period of community commenting and trial period(s). The bot idea is good, but I think it misses something. What happens if a new user responds to the welcome message on their own talk page? I know from when a friend of mine first came to Wikipedia that she didn't have any concept of talk pages. There was this "new message" link that came onto the screen and you could "edit this page", but that was about it. It seems likely that new users will not be technically savvy enough to find your page. Would you have some way to monitor their pages to see if there are any responses to your welcome messages? Now I'm not sure that those who do welcoming even do this, but I thought I'd raise this point to see what your thoughts on it were. With regards to some of the concerns, I specifically like the idea of limiting the bot so that it only welcomes users who meet some threshold, such as 10 edits. I don't have a problem with the bot welcoming lots of users, provided that you can manage any responses. I'm not sure how the problem of a talk page that has been deleted should be addressed. -- RM 00:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

First, as far as the certain number of edits, I honestly have no idea. I've just begun using AWB, so I'll have to think about it, but nothing comes to mind immediately. Secondly, I totally need to test it with non-compsavy people. I make sure to do that when I design web sites, and I know that it's really easy to forget that not everyone has been here or understands how it works. I still find talk pages for users a little confusing sometimes, considering that they really aren't set up for how we use them. Anyway, the template I've been using (Template:welcome0L1) is pretty good as far as directing people onto my talk page. I have no idea if anyone has asked me any questions on their own talk page, but I had one person put a {{helpme}} on mine. I suppose that I could add them all to the watchlist, but that'd get rather large. Perhaps a script to remove pages off watchlist after x number of days? Oh yes, and the deleted talk pages. I could, of course, add many, many things into the list that defines what pages should be skipped. It doesn't help there is no standard, really. Theorectically (wow I spelled that wrong ;) ) there should only be new users in the list. That would eliminate those who've retired. And I suppose those who were banned would have ban notices or sock puppet notices. Though I did get someone the other day who has been around for a while. I have no idea how that happened, unless it was when I was screwing around with settings and accidentally got list from Special:Log&offset=x instead of Special:Log/newusers&offset=x. I know that I cannot make this perfect (especially without really knowing how to program myself). But whether or not this goes through, I hope at least we've made progress, perhaps for someone else to build on. Coolio. Xiong Chiamiov :: contact :: 04:37, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• On a scale of 1-10 between denial and approval, I'm sitting at about a 3 on this one. I'm just not sold on the usefulness aspect. — xaosflux ^Talk 00:24, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I have a similar problem. I installed User:GeorgeMoney's Auto Welcome script into my monobook.js page. (Instructions are at User:GeorgeMoney/UserScripts.) The script allows me to welcome users in most cases with one click per user. Now, User:xaosflux as suggested that I create a seperate bot account as I can readily create 40 welcome pages in 5 minutes -- even though I have a slow machine and use a dial up ISP account.

What should I be doing? I don't know what to say that my bot would run in. The script is JS and runs locally. Will (Talk - contribs) 03:53, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe you need a bot flag if it is human-assisted. Right? Xiong Chiamiov :: contact :: 03:58, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, if you don't approve this as a bot, then I will just run it human-assisted. The usefulness, though, is simply that there are quite a few users who never get welcomed. Since I believe that is significant, I believe this is important. If you don't agree that everyone needs to be welcomed... then you don't agree. That's fine with me. I have no more arguments. Xiong Chiamiov :: contact :: 03:58, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

There seems to be a misunderstanding wether the bot is automatic or human assisted, It needs approval of the BAG as we handle all automatic/simi-automatic bots and as there have been numerous attempts to have such a bot created and repeatedly they have repeatedly been rejected by the community and BAG. Reguardless weither or not you get a bot flag you are still using a bot. and thus need BAG approval. Using AWB in that manner is not something that should be done. If there was a consensus to welcome users we could have that built into the metawiki software but as a welcome is a human thing such task cannot be done via a bot

Denied. Betacommand ^{(talk • contribs • Bot)} 07:32, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.