User talk:Ravenofpoe1

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion[edit]

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. MacAddct1984 ^{(talk | contribs)} 13:05, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit in the Aaron Frenkel article[edit]

This is not the Ukrainian or Russian Wikipedia, he could be a friend of Putin's, or was a friend of Putin's, that's not enough to turn the owner of a company that produces advanced missiles into an 'arms dealer'. Your edits are ruining Wikipedia and your position (your contributions page will attest) is clear. Stop!

And one more point, Frankel derives his importance and prestige from being the "Vice President of the World Jewish Congress" - his ownership of Lloyd's is just one more ownership in his portfolio. Nevertheless, you chose to remove the important thing and put the less important thing. So I'll ask you honestly: what are you telling yourself? That encyclopedic accuracy matters more to you or smearing those you perceive as Putin's friends? 164.138.122.130 (talk) 21:35, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources which were already used on this article had mentioned the individual's relationship with Vladimir Putin, and involvement in the arms industry. They have been widely reported on, yet remain absent on his Wikipedia page. Ravenofpoe1 (talk) 06:40, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is not involvement in the arms industry and you know it. Through one of his companies he controls an advanced missile developer - that is not called "arms trading" as you tried to push into the article. Also mentioning 'Israeli' when referring to a Monegasque citizen who spends his days in Europe and Dubai is ridiculous, especially coming from someone who skews the namespace under the guise of balanced writing. The attempt at smearing is so blatant that it can be smelled from afar. 164.138.122.130 (talk) 13:08, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have mentioned that he is the owner of a manufacturer of advanced missiles. Other online sources mention his involvement in the production of drones and military technologies. This would constitute the arms industry. The description "Arms Dealer" has been used for numerous others in the arms industry on Wikipedia.

This source mentions that Frenkel is "Israeli by nationality". I have found no mention of Monegasque citizenship in any source. If he is indeed, then "Israeli-born Monegasque" would be used, as is used for other notable figures, including other businessmen with international operations (See, Jean-Paul Getty or Adnan Khashoggi as examples). On a personal level, I am Jewish and of Israeli origin. I don't see "Israeli" as being a smear - on the contrary, it is something to be proud of, and I am proud of Frenkel's philanthropic work. That being said, the full nature of his business dealings should be noted. Ravenofpoe1 (talk) 14:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The term 'arms dealer' is a derogatory term, usually used for small traders or people making a living from 'war bussines' - which is clearly not the case here. And it's a shame you insist on going down that path. As for whether he is Israeli or not - according to the article, he was born in Israel, and as a Jew he may have Israeli citizenship, but that doesn't justify mentioning it in the opening of the article when we are talking about someone who maintains a cosmopolitan Jewish activity and doesn't represent any notable connection to the State of Israel. Even if he came here himself and asked to be described as Israeli, we would refuse to do so! 164.138.122.130 (talk) 15:06, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not understand your point regarding his Israeli nationality; every page, for every notable figure on Wikipedia, opens with their nationality. The source given, which has conducted interviews with Frenkel in the past, claims he is an Israeli national. This is in accordance with the Wikipedia Style Guidelines, ensuring consistency throughout articles.

The Collins Dictionary describes "arms dealer" as "a person or business that sells weapons and other military equipment". We have both established that Frenkel is involved in this business. Ravenofpoe1 (talk) 15:42, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to interject. His point is very clear - Wikipedia presents the national origin only when the persona is identified with it. That is not the case here. As for 'arms dealer', as you brought from the Collins dictionary, the term applies to a trader for whom this is their trade, and definitely not to a businessman some of whose owned companies produce advanced technology that is partly used for military purposes. His connection to weapons is so remote that it is customary to mention it only when seeking to paint his figure in exotic colors... that is suitable for magazine articles and not for an encyclopedia. 2A01:6500:A048:2A2E:510:9F22:29E8:1650 (talk) 16:02, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia presents the nationality for every single individual I can find as an editorial policy. I can't find any example where such isn't the case. Indeed, even his wife is described as "Croatian" in the opening. I do not see how this is a point of contention.

And - to arms dealing - the point was that he had served as a middleman to arms manufacturers, and owns several companies which produce goods specifically for defense - drones and missiles. This is widely reported. Ravenofpoe1 (talk) 16:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion[edit]

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. I'm sick of dealing with this. The administrators will handle it. I have so many other interesting articles to delve into. You went overboard... 164.138.124.64 (talk) 10:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not understand your concern surrounding this, as it was all fully sourced, and you haven't been able to provide a rebuttal to any point. Ravenofpoe1 (talk) 11:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your problem is a lack of understanding between the principal and the minor matter - not everything written somewhere is a 'source' - I have explained this several times, but you are plugging your ears because you don't want to hear anything other than 'arms dealer' since that's why you came here. Tell me you just happened to see this article... and then fell in love with it and haven't left it for several days now. Embarrassing. 164.138.124.64 (talk) 15:11, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"not everything written somewhere is a 'source'"

Once again, it's an industry publication which has interviewed the subject matter. Based on Wikipedia's editorial standards, that is a source. A source is not defined by whether you like it or not. Ravenofpoe1 (talk) 15:15, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 2024[edit]

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Aaron Frenkel. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. MacAddct1984 ^{(talk | contribs)} 12:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing certain pages (Aaron Frenkel) for edit warring.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. Bbb23 (talk) 13:18, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]