User talk:Pigsonthewing/Archive 13

Query re microformats

Hi Andy. I was a bit curious about the class="fn org" you added to Template:Infobox Australian Place, which seems to suggest that a place name/place is an organisation. Is this standard use of the hCard microformat? JPD (talk) 15:58, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's a known issue, but not yet resolved. that said, it doesn't stop hCards from being very useful, it just means they're not quite as specific as they could be. As yet, there are no parsers which need to distinguish between types of hCard for places or organisations - and there would be grey areas to consider if they could do so. It's more a matter of a desired feature for the future. Andy Mabbett 16:15, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the confusion about whether hCards are for people or are more general is indeed one of the unimportant qualms I have about their use on Wikipedia and similar uses elsewhere. However, I was trying to address a more specific, immediate issue: given that we are using an hCard in the template to refer to a place, is it appropriate include an "org" class? It is optional, and seems to be better left out in this case. Am I missing something? JPD (talk) 16:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

There is no confusion, hCards are, by definition, for people, organisations or places. Using "fn org" indicates that they are for an organisation or place; using just "fn" specifies explicitly that they apply to people. In other words, use of "fn org" is mandatory for hCards about places. The issue cited is about the possibility, in the future, of differentiating between those for organisations and places. Andy Mabbett 18:40, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

By confusion, I did not mean much more than the issues raised in the link you gave above. If the current approach is that "fn org" implies organisation or place, because "fn" specifies a person, then that is the answer to my question. I didn't realise this, because the microformats page says "If the "FN" and "ORG" properties have the exact same value (typically because they are set on the same element, e.g. class="fn org"), then the hCard represents contact information for a company or organization and should be treated as such." Maybe that should be updated. Thanks for explaining, JPD (talk) 16:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree; and have updated that page accordingly. Cheers, Andy Mabbett 16:11, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Geolinks-buldingscale

I am bit confused by the edit you have made to Geolinks-buildingscale

--Scotthatton 16:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to remove it, and that on {{coord}}, if you wish. Andy Mabbett 20:02, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Template:UK Parish

Hi, your last changes to above template appear to have changed layout. Can you change to unbold Region & Coordinates and to left align as per the rest of the labels in the template?

Keith D 17:33, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I've tried (using preview) and can't figure out how. Elsewhere, I'm waiting for an answer to a question about where to get help with templates. When I do, I'll raise the issue there. Andy Mabbett 20:01, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

How about reverting until you figure it out? Keith D 20:14, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that the gain in functionality outweighs a temporary and minor aesthetic problem; the content is still readable. Andy Mabbett 20:20, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I think I have the answer now it is to do with the ! making it a header row. I will change the template - if it causes a problem with the mark-up then revert it. Keith D 20:46, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Great, thank you. Andy Mabbett 20:49, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

{coord}

Thanks for updating Template:Infobox PNG Place with information on the new coordinates template, and providing a fix on Goroka. I will modify as many articles with this template as I can tonight to use the new coord template. Aliasd 13:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Splendid! Thank you. You may be interested in the project to put microformats on Wikipedia and, of youre nor using ot already, the Operator extension for Firefox. Andy Mabbett 13:54, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

For reverting the vandalism on my talk page!

mcr616 _Speak! has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

mcr616 _Speak! 16:40, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I'm trying to find all of 12.207.12.28 's socks. Has anyone been harassing you via Wikipedia lately besides 12.207.12.28? mcr616 _Speak! 17:40, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Question on use of state senator template

I tried using {{Infobox State Senator}} on James Leddy (commented out the template incidentally). The display instead generated him a title of "US Congressman" much to my surprise. I went to my US congressman's article Peter Welch and someone had used another template. I'm lost. Can you point me in the right direction for a state senator's template? Thanks.Student7 02:05, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, no idea. Try the template's talk page. Andy Mabbett 12:01, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Disused stations in the West Midlands

I just wanted to drop my thanks for your double-checking of the new articles I've recently created, especially for fixing my error on Spon Lane railway station. It is appreciated! Fingerpuppet 05:27, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

A pleasure - I'm finding them really interesting. Thank you. Andy Mabbett 06:23, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Upright format in images

You editted Icknield Street School not long ago with the edit summary of "fmt imgs per MoS". In the edit you added 'upright' to the image tags. I've had a look over WP:MOS, and have found nothing in that or the Picture Tutorial that these need to be added to images. So are these really tags really necessary for images? - Erebus555 12:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Apologies for the belated response - I've only just noticed your message. I think the MoS is lagging behind. "Upright" was announced in Signpost a few weeks ago, as a fix for thumbnails of portrait-format images such as those. Andy Mabbett 15:20, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I have not subscribed to Signpost so I was unaware of it being announced. - Erebus555 15:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Infobox U.S. County

"Coordinates" should not be a parameter within this template. If you want it to be, you should make it where the {{{coordinates}}} variable doesn't include the template, but just the parameters of the template. Adding this line...

 coordinates = {{coord|with a bunch of parameters that users don't understand}}

... makes no sense.

Timneu22 16:00, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry you feel like that, but please don't present your lack of understanding as a "should" for me to obey. Wikipedia - and life - doesn't work like that. Andy Mabbett 16:05, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

And the reason you didn't see anything on the template's talk page was because you reverted again, before I'd finished writing it. Please read what I wrote there, and undo your reversion. Andy Mabbett 16:08, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Infobox Settlement

Excellent idea - that seems to be suitable for the most part (and far more developed than my version) Go right ahead and delete the NZ Town infobox, if you wish.

AfD nomination of List of_banks_of_the_United_States_of_America

I've nominated List of_banks_of_the_United_States_of_America, an article you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but in this particular case I do not feel that List of_banks_of_the_United_States_of_America satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion; I have explained why in the nomination space (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and the Wikipedia deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of_banks_of_the_United_States_of_America and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of List of_banks_of_the_United_States_of_America during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Videmus Omnia 02:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

deletion of {{coord dms mountain}}

Thank you for finding this! I had just completely lost track of it. It was obviated by {{Infobox mountain}} hike395 00:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Piper at the gates of dawn

Hi pigsonthewing Yes i wrote that 'essay' on the piper page and it is almost completly original. I knew it would get deleted, but i really want something like that to be encorporated into the article. Thanks for pasting it on to the talk page anyway - Ummagumma23 10:09 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Leonig Mig

I appreciate from your edits and his that you're both trying to edit constructively but are too combative. Trust me, I've been in such scrapes myself. Try to assume good faith and act in such away that you deserve others to assume similarly (even though LM has failed to do so in the past), be civil and try to forgive. I know it's not easy, but forgiveness can get you places that grudges can't. Make up with LM - I've removed his section attacking you, too, by the way - and try (BOTH OF YOU!) to get on with helpful editing, either together or separately. Happy editing!

Best wishes,

Vox Humana 8' 14:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Vox. Having sections attacking each other on your userpages is not acceptable. Even if you are incapable of working together, having such a thing is overly provocative, and will lead to more bad than it will good. J Milburn 17:21, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

That's not an attack; it's a statement of fact. Besides, I can;t work with someone who's not here. Andy Mabbett 21:11, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Whether it is a statement of fact or not, the fact you place it on your userpage in such a way is an attack. If he isn't here, why are you so keen to tell the world you aren't going to reply to him? J Milburn 22:03, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Poppycock, Try reading it. Andy Mabbett 22:06, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I read it. I am not saying that what you are saying is unjustified, I am just saying that saying it in that manner, on your userpage, is. Look at it like this- maybe Tom Smith raped someone, and that is completely true. Be that as it may, me having, in huge bold letters, on my userpage 'TOM SMITH IS A RAPIST AND I HATE HIM AND I HOPE HE ROTS IN HELL', even if I do believe that, meaning everything I am saying is true, is hardly appropriate. You do not need to proclaim your hatred to someone and try to spread the animosity. Having such a thing on your page serves only to incite bad feelings. J Milburn 22:11, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Where did I say anything about hatred? Kindly keep your inventions to yourself. Andy Mabbett 22:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how you think we can have a reasonable discussion when you continually remove my messages without explanation. J Milburn 22:56, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Skins

Andy, I use the Classic skin, in which your userpage looks like an abomination in the eyes of God and Man. I don't suppose you could do something about that? DS 22:52, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Incidents board

I have posted a message about the disagreement here to the admins incident board. J Milburn 23:06, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Walsall article

Pigsonthewing, how would you and some of the WikiProject West Midlands participants like to help me bring the article to featured article status?? Discussion on the talk page of the Walsall article... --SunStar Net ^talk 09:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Andy,

I've got no intention of implementing parameterized approach to the geotag problem as a short-term fix, since this would only add a third competing solution to the existing mix. Instead, I'm proposing it as a long-term solution that is extensible enough to handle future needs in a way that is capable of being both forwards and backwards compatible with future geodata needs, as well being backwards compatible with the existing tagging systems.

I'd like to believe that this proposal can satisfy:

• your goal of centralizing and simplifying the implementation of geotags to increase maintainability
• the desire supporters of the status quo to keep template parameters as simple as possible for human editors, and
• my goal of making things as easy as possible both for bot operators and data reusers of both microformats and machine-parsable wikitext

In order to do this, I want first to achieve a consensus about goals. I think the goals should be:

• geotag templates should be easy for people to understand and edit
• geotag templates should be easy for machines to parse and edit, without breaking human editability
• that geotagging conventions should be consistent across all templates that use geotags
• geotags should be universally capable of generating consistent microformat data
• that the implementation of all of this should be centralized through a single low-level set of templates that allow consistency of implementation across the entire system, and allow the system to be maintained and changed consistently, to avoid a proliferation of separate independent and inconsistent implementations

If we can first get agreement on all of these, I believe that the new scheme has a good chance to be acceptable to all parties, if we can also show that the new scheme satisfies all of these goals better than either of the old.

To make this work, we will also need to get the major producers and consumers of data, to agree on its technical feasability, and to have them ready to use the new format before rolling it out. All of this needs to occur before making the change. (Although I'd like to get a test implementation going soon, so that there's actually something to discuss, but not to roll it out in any article pages.)

Finally, I believe that the transition from old to new schemes can be managed in a way that keeps everything working throughout. Yes, over a hundred thousand pages will need to be edited to make the transition: but that's what bots are for.

I'd be interested in discussing this further with you, before going any further. Please let me know what you think. -- The Anome 10:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I think I can support everything you're proposing, and would be happy to take it to a wide community (perhaps WP:GEO, with notes at WP:VPT and other relevant pages); and to assist as much as my abilities allow (I'm no coder!). However, it will take a while to resolve, and I would like to convert existing coor * templates to {{coord}} in the meantime, starting now, so that its additional functionality (including geo microformats) is available to users ASAP. Can you assist with that, too, please?

I also think we should create or amend a template to do what you're proposing, so people can see it in action feel free to use {{PoI}}, which is new and thus not widely used at present.

I'd add three items to your list of goals:

• Geo tags should emit geo microformats (and other metadata if desired)

• It should be possible to wrap geotags in other templates, so as to emit hCard microformats with included coordinates

• It should be possible to determine whether a geotag applies to a whole article, or just a point mentioned it it (probably by saying the former s true of "title" is used as a display attribute and/ or the tag appears in an infobox.

I'm also happy to liaise with Google Earth, GeoNames and WikiWorld, but if you e-mail me with your e-mail address, I'll copy you in. Andy Mabbett 12:23, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes to all of the above, with one exception: although I've got no problem at all with converting all the old coor templates to coord, either technically or personally, I'm just not sure it's a good ideal politically, since it is likely to really irritate the supporters of the status quo, which is something I'd like to avoid. On the other hand, I'm happy to use {{coord}} for all my new geotagging from now on. A compromise might be only to edit geodata tags that I've added myself with my bot, and leave other people's geotags alone.

I'll E-mail you my E-mail address soon. -- The Anome 12:43, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Initially, there was consensus to convert all such templates to coord. Then there was a - reasonable - request to delay this until external parsers indicated that they were ready to read them. They have now done this. There is no reason now, to not start the process of fully implementing coord and deprecating coor *. Andy Mabbett 12:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

OK; I think we should make an announcement about this on the geodata Wikiproject, citing the earlier consensus, the reasons for not going ahead, and that the current support from data reusers removes the reasons for that objection, wait a day or two to see if there's mass outrage, and then start the translation process, if the consensus seems to hold. -- The Anome 20:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Please go ahead, and feel free to append my name alongside your sig (assuming you post something like the above), if you wish. Andy Mabbett 11:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Your "stalker" paragraph on your userpage

As you know I am one of the admins who removed the paragraph captioned "stalker" on your userpage. Although this user's edits that you cite were indeed highly inappropriate, retaliating with a personal attack of your own is equally so, especially in a prominent location on your userpage. If you continue to add this material, it may become necessar to block you from editing. I sincerely hope that this will not be necessary. Instead, if you experience any further problems with this editor, please post appropriately on ANI or take other appropriate dispute resolution steps. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation. Newyorkbrad 21:20, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

There is no attack; no block with be "necessar" (sic). Previous reports of the user's inappropriate behaviour resulted in no action whatsoever. Attempts at dispute resolution, through mediation, were rejected out-of-hand, as cited. Andy Mabbett 21:24, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I have again removed the personal attack. Its presence is not acceptable. If you revert the text again I will block you. Newyorkbrad 22:24, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

You appear to be under a misapprehension. There is no personal attack, merely a factual statement of the circumstances, supported by some admins on WP:ANI. Andy Mabbett 22:26, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe that you should be blocked indefinitely for your refusal to deescalate this matter. Please note that "indefinitely" in this context does not mean "permanently," but "until you agree to stop." However, since there is disagreement over the matter, I have posted the proposed block to ANI to see if there is a consensus for it. I again urge you to render the discussion moot by eliminating the offending paragraph. Newyorkbrad 22:38, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Pot kettle black. It appears to me to be you & J. Milburn who are escalating the matter. --Tagishsimon (talk)

As I say, I've posted to ANI for consensus, in part because you seem to feel so strongly that what Pigsonthewing is doing is appropriate, so it won't be just my decision. Newyorkbrad 22:52, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

It is not that I think that what Andy does is always appropriate, so much as that I'm outraged at the lynch mob / kangaroo court which appears to have arisen out of J. Milburn's intervention. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Please don't assume that I am part of a lynch mob or a kangeroo court when I ask a user to remove blatantly uncivil comments that might interfere with deescalating a situation, particularly when I give multiple warnings and participate in a noticeboard discussion before taking any action. Newyorkbrad 22:59, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

That's the thing about mobs; when asked, no-one is a member of them. And in truth, I accept your good faith (and indeed that of all of the others involved). Yet still I get a sense of deep injustice being done here. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Tagish, I am not quite sure whether you think I have behaved irrationally here, but I went to the noticeboard only after rational discussion with both users reached no conclusion, and I realised I was out of reverts, and Pigs was unwilling to discuss the matter. If you honestly think I acted badly, could you please explain why on my talk page? I will take your comments into account and consider them. Also, this guy doesn't exactly have a clean slate- he has had a lot of chances. Take a look at his block log. J Milburn 23:04, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict, to Tagishsimon)I respect your position, but let's take the converse side: if every user were allowed to post negative comments about other users on their userpage, rehashing every negative experience they had in the past, what sort of environment would we soon have here? Newyorkbrad 23:05, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm with you on that, Newyorkbrad. But I would prefer an environment in which Andy was not coerced into removing the message. What sort of environment is it that is populated by thought police? (Okay, I respect that that is an inflammatory thing to say - I'm quite tired and probably not quite capable of choosing the right words right now, and I reiterate that I accept your good faith in this matter. And whereas I read most of Andy's arguments on the various project pages and often sigh, I equally keep seeing people laying into Andy in the most gratuitous fashion apparently because they cannot get Andy to see their point of view, and because they are unwilling to see Andy's. And I don't want to work in a wikipedia that works like that. --Tagishsimon (talk)

I respect your point of view on this. As it happens, while I was cogitating a reply to you, I see that someone else has acted. Thanks for your thoughts, and get some rest. :) Newyorkbrad 23:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

There are no uncivil comments, blatant or otherwise (apart from those I link to). Andy Mabbett 11:12, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Andy, you might want to consider whether the paragraph is more hassle than it's worth. Mark H Wilkinson 08:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I have. Andy Mabbett 10:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Andy, I don't know if you want a stranger's opinion or not, so if you don't just remove this (with my blessing). I realize it's debatable whether or not that actually includes personal attacks. (You did link to actual abuse and vandalism, for example; but the declaration that he shows no good faith is questionable and less-clear) But that's not my concern. My concern is with your declaration that you don't need to explain your edits. No matter who I end up in scuffles with, and no matter how many times they insult me, I still have to be prepared to explain the rationale behind any edit. A person insulting you (or vandalizing your userpage) doesn't give you a blank cheque to then discard the larger collaborative process. Anyways, just an outside opinion from someone relatively uninvolved. Feel free to remove if you like. Bladestorm 12:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. WP:AGF says "This guideline does not require that editors continue to assume good faith in the presence of evidence to the contrary". The emboldening is in the original. I have never said that I "don't need to explain [my] edits", and often do. Andy Mabbett 13:42, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Blocked

Per Admin User:LessHeard vanU, you have been blocked for a period of 24 hours due to violations of the 3 Revert Rule on User:Pigsonthewing. I strongly recommend that when you come back, you do not continue edit warring with the various users on your user page. SirFozzie 23:09, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Pigsonthewing (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

No block is justified. Reason given above is 3RR, though the page concerned is my own user page, where 3RR does not apply. Reason given in block log is harassment; there was no harassment by me (there was harassment of me ([12], [13]), which has once again gone unremarked). Many of the comments on WP:ANI were ad hominem, stemming from an unrelated content dispute, and of no relevance to this issue. There is no consensus for a removal of the disputed notice, much less a block, per [14], [15], [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22]. I would ask that the admin concerned read the disputed text, reproduced below for your convenience, and all of the diffs cited in it. As can be seen, my comment is a neutral description of the circumstances (in which Leonig Mig (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log) dismisses my offer of mediation; clearly states his his edits are "purely for the purpose of stalking me" (no admin has ever shown any interest in preventing this); calls me a cunt and a prick (ditto) and vandalises my user page (ditto)) and contains no personal attack by me. Thank you. Andy Mabbett 08:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Decline reason:

3rr applies to any page on wikipedia - not just articles. Disruptive editing is disruptive whatever space it's at. Also, you have been politely asked to not include the content on your userpage. You could cause this entire issue to go away, but you chose to make this into a problem. Please review WP:OWN and understand that "your" user space is not under your control... it's under the scrutiny of the community standards. — ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 14:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

---

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

There is nothing on WP:OWN, nor on WP:USER, which prohibits me from reverting my own user page, nor from including on it the disputed text. Andy Mabbett 18:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Block extended

Since you have decided to continue the edit war by bringing the information to the talk page, I have extended the block to 72 hours and I am now protecting your talk page. SirFozzie 15:02, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

The block - as several editors said on WP:ANI - was completely unwarranted; extending it doubly so. Protecting my talk page, after reverting it to your preferred version, a totally unacceptable act of censorship. Andy Mabbett 18:39, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I concur. Outrageous breach of natural justice by an admin....Gaimhreadhan^{(kiwiexile at DMOZ)} • 00:33, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Arbitration

Please see this request concerning your conduct. Moreschi ^Talk 21:34, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Coord in Infobox Settlement

Hi Pigsonthewing,
I had to revert one of your recent edits to Template:Infobox Settlement because it is not displaying correctly; see discussion here. Could you look at fixing this? —MJCdetroit 12:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll reply there. Andy Mabbett 17:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Just an observation

Something I noted in the request to reopen an old RFA on you[1]: currently, one response (from Arbitrator Kirill Lokshin) is to open a new case ("this can't properly be considered a direct continuation of the old one"). Now, I'm far from being expert on the procedures involved, but it seems to me that if the aim is to open a new RFA on you, there should be a demonstration that there's been an attempt to resolve the dispute by other means. Currently, those wanting arbitration are only citing an RFC and an RFA from some time ago. This doesn't seem like due process to me. Mark H Wilkinson 20:01, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Cite-o-matic

Alas! Try this link. You've clicked in at a good time, actually: I've just fixed a bug which has rendered it largely useless for ages. It's still being a bit clunky, please do let me know when it doesn't behave as expected!

Thanks for letting me know, and I hope you find it useful; Verisimilus T 20:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

England or UK

England is only suitable when the United Kingdom follows it. That is often a bit of a mouthful, so using the UK on its own or England, UK is better. The problem we have is that many people refer to the whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as ' England ' which is totally inaccurate. This is mostly done by foreigners (from the US usually) and misinformed football fans. We are having a problem in the UK at the moment with the rise of the nationalist parties in Scotland and Wales. This is partly because they are sick and tired of hearing their constituent country referred to as ' England ' by some misinformed americans. I get annoyed. There are many who edit on wikipedia and forget to add the UK on the end. The UK is the soverign state made up of those constituent countries so I think it is more appropriate to refer to London, UK rather than London, England. W2ch00 21:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Vox Humana 8'

Ah well. Let's hope he has turned over a new leaf. His articles look quite good.

I doubt that rescinding a short-term ban is uncommon, and will AGF.

Sorry to see you have an arbcom doodab to look forward to. Can't be pleasant for you. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Hmm. No new leaf yet. [2] Very disappointing. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Indeed. And I'm again indebted to you. Thank you. Andy Mabbett 08:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Geographical precision

Hi - For a monument, I think one decimal place in the seconds of a coordinate is pretty good. Compare one decimal place with no decimal places. I agree that four decimal places is just stupid though! :) Cheers - Gobeirne 23:14, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. Andy Mabbett 23:18, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Disregard of Wikipedia community

You have again added a request for coordinates in article space, even though you were told numerous times not to do so. The last time you reverted my note about it with the summary "Do not issue me with instructions", which I thought ment that you have understood the issue and considered the help unnecessary. Did you not understand it after all, or are you ignoring what has been said about the use of such templates in article space, and being disruptive? You can be stubborn all you want and not have to agree with people, but do not ignore community decision. --Para 20:13, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I have ignored no "community decision". Andy Mabbett 20:33, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Could you try not turning every criticism of your behaviour into nitpicking? Whichever the choice of words, it was established at Template talk:LocateMe#Templates_gone_mad and elsewhere that coordinates for articles must not be requested in article space. Can't you just cooperate and follow community consensus, even if reluctantly? I expect you to move the request to the article's talk page. --Para 20:45, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Could you try not inventing things? I expect you to continue to do so. Andy Mabbett 20:48, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing 2

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing 2. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing 2/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing 2/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, David Mestel^(Talk) 21:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

MC:Atmos

I saw you moved the Master of Ceremonies (song) article back to MC:Atmos. Wouldn't Master of Ceremonies (song) make more sense, since the track was origonally released as that? Thanks. --ASDFGHJKL=Greatest Person Ever+Coolest Person Ever 21:50, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

No. It was originally released as MC:ATMOS, and that's what it's currently known as. Andy Mabbett 21:51, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Um, when the albumn was released in 2000 in North America, the track was titled "Master of Ceremonies". But it was changed on the reissue five years later in North America and Europe. --ASDFGHJKL=Greatest Person Ever+Coolest Person Ever 22:05, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Um, No. The 2000 North American release was not the first release. Andy Mabbett 22:10, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, the album was released on April 18, 2000. --ASDFGHJKL=Greatest Person Ever+Coolest Person Ever 22:13, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

It North America, perhaps. In Europe, we had it in March. Andy Mabbett 22:15, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I'll change the article now. Sorry for starting this. So was MC:Atmos on the UK release? --ASDFGHJKL=Greatest Person Ever+Coolest Person Ever 22:20, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Right from the start. No worries, Andy Mabbett 22:23, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Template/ doc talk pages

• Redirect of Template talk:Infobox cemetery/doc

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Template talk:Infobox cemetery/doc, by SXT40 (talk · contribs), another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Template talk:Infobox cemetery/doc is a redirect to a non-existent page (CSD R1).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Template talk:Infobox cemetery/doc, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to leave a message on the bot operator's talk page if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. --Android Mouse Bot 2 10:39, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

• Redirect of Template talk:Infobox Library/doc

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Template talk:Infobox Library/doc, by SXT40 (talk · contribs), another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Template talk:Infobox Library/doc is a redirect to a non-existent page (CSD R1).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Template talk:Infobox Library/doc, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to leave a message on the bot operator's talk page if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. --Android Mouse Bot 2 10:39, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Unreasonable though it might seem, I don't spend my day waiting for speedy deletion notices. These redirections were already deleted when I arrived home this evening. Had I been here, I would have pointed out, as I have done in a comment on the recreated redirects, that discussion of template/doc pages belongs on the discussion page for the template, lest it be fragmented. Andy Mabbett 18:50, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

UK Local Government District infobox

Hello Andy,

I have come across your contributions a number of times, and noticed today you're fairly adept at creating infoboxes and templates.

I've raised a number of times the need for a standardised UK (or perhaps England, or England & Wales - I'm not sure) local government district infobox - we currently have tables pasted into articles pretending to be infoboxes, and the ordering and content is not consistent (compare the very pink North Somerset with Sheffield and Liverpool).

I was wondering if you were upto the task of initiating (it's beyond me) a Template:Infobox UK district that could be used for local government districts (including cities, metropolitan boroughs, districts, unitary authorities etc)????

Let me know your thoughts when conveinient of course. Hope you're interested, Jza84 23:15, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not suse I have the skills for a template that complex, but I'll help where I can. I suggest you start discussion on Wikipedia:UK Wikipedians' notice board or similar. Andy Mabbett 11:14, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Googlability

OK, you can delete the section if you want but you should read Wikipedia:Redirect#What needs to be done on pages that are targets of redirects?. 16@r 17:08, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

If anything, Googlability should redirect to Google search. Google is about the company, not the search engine. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 17:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Amateur Canal enthusiast

Hello there. I'm a member of the Manchester Bolton and Bury canal society, although I don't own a narrowboat I do cycle regularly on the canals around Manchester and Cheshire. I've done a fair bit of work on the MB&B canal wiki and the Manchester and Salford Junction canal wiki. I'd quite like to get involved here to, supplying any images I can of the areas I cycle in. Is there any way I can help? I have some interesting images of the restoration of the MB&B canal but I'm not certain if they're of any use here. I've also uploaded a fair amount of pictures to Flickr and placed them on the maps, specifically canal images. Parrot of Doom 22:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure both your involvement and pictures will be very welcome. I'm not that familiar with canals in that part of the world, it might be best if you ask on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Waterways and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Greater Manchester to see what's needed. Andy Mabbett 23:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Andy. I'll head over there now. One last question - there is a list of members on the front page. Is that by invite only, or can I include myself? I've been quite busy expanding the entries on the MB&B canal, Fletcher's Canal, Viaducts, etc. I'd quite like to contribute, I'm just not sure what permissions are required before I come barging in? Parrot of Doom 21:04, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

You can just add yourself. Please do! For general principles, see WP:BOLD and pages linked from there. Andy Mabbett 21:07, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Cool! I'll do it now. Parrot of Doom 21:47, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Template:GeoTemplate/Lang

Hi. I read trough a "how to use GeoTemplate" that you wrote, and tried to figure out how to make a full link to other translations of the template. Could you possibly take a look at it and find out how to add the type, region and any other code that might have been left out. I think it's a great tool that Magnus has writen, and I use it a lot while surfing around. I think interwiki links are as important there as they are anywhere. --Steinninn 05:26, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I didn't write that, so can't help you. Try Template talk:GeoTemplate Andy Mabbett 08:13, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I will. --Steinninn 15:40, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Lunar Society category

I am proposing a merger of "Members of the Lunar Society" and "Lunar Society". (I saw on the category creator's talk page that you are already aware of this problem, but I am officially notifying you anyway. :) The discussion is at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 July 15. Awadewit | talk 09:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

We should have been bold and deleted. What a silly discussion over at CFD. An example of why I hate those pages. Awadewit | talk 09:53, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Your revert on Firefox page

"rv POV. Citations were user-entered content" What do you mean?. All citations are entered by users. And my five citations are all from mozilla.org —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.103.34.167 (talk • contribs)

I mean that the content of the pages you cite as references are entered by users of that cite; it's no more relaiable than a blog. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 11:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but it seems you are commiting a mistake. Have you followed the links?. My first citation is from archive.org, a site that stores historic state of internet pages and refers to the official Firefox page as it was on 2004-08-16. The other four are from bugzilla and reflect the title exactly as it appears on the official site for Firefox bugs. If you don't like the texts, ask bugzilla to change this behaviour. I only followed the citation template as it is designed. Believe me, if Firefox were a reliable downloader I will be a little more happy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.103.34.167 (talk • contribs)

If you don't have objetion I will redo my edit with minor corrections. I've seen you've edited the talk page for this IP. Thanks for the invitation, but I really do prefer going on without public reputation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.103.34.167 (talk • contribs)

I suggest you read the polices in the welcome message before you edit again. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 15:53, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Aviation/Infobox Airport

Just wanted to let you know that when I made this edit I took out the microformat {{UF-hcard-geo}} template because I was not sure if it would work with the new infobox. Can you check it out and if it does replace the template. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 00:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. Thank you. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 10:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: Second city of the United Kingdom - Request for Rational Debate

As a recent, and possibly significant, contributor to the Second city of the United Kingdom article, I'd like to direct your attention to this edit on the Talk Page regarding a Request for Rational Debate on the subject of the article. All the best. Sprigot 15:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

reference tags and endianness

You and I agree on reference tags (see Wikipedia talk:Cite sources/archive17#"Footnotes come after punctuation" and earlier discussion). (I think it is a computer programming outlook). We are not alone in this but we are a minority between the edians who want one or the other. So for the moment it better to support the "only before the punctuation" as they are willing to have a compromise solution than the after punctuation who want it only their way. --Philip Baird Shearer 22:23, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Accessibility

I do not doubt that your accessibility concerns (re: templates) are based in something, but merely saying "accessibility" doesn't help me that much. Analyzing and possibly assuaging your concerns becomes a difficult task when you are not specific regarding who is being inconvenienced by an accessibility issue, what would be better with an alternate approach, why changing it would be a reasonable accommodation, etc. In the future, could you explain such things more thoroughly? I am less familiar with the field than you, and I suspect that most Wikipedians are as well. Thank you for your work with standardization and such. Happy editing, Gracenotes^T § 22:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:Microformat-logo.png listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Microformat-logo.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 05:58, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

List of largest urban sub-divisions in England by population

I reverted your change to this article because the figure you added for Birmingham does not conform to the rest of the article. The lead clearly states that 2001 census figures are being listed, and yet the source you provide is from 2005. Can I suggest that if you feel the need to make the change, you discuss the change in wording of the lead on the discussion page first? That way, consensus can be achieved for the change in scope of the article, and all the figures can be reviewed for the latest up-to-date figures. I think this would probably be an improvement, as otherwise the figures will get more and mroe out of date, and so I encourage you to do it.  DDStretch  (talk) 10:19, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

My mistake. Consistency in how the figures are derived is importantAndy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 10:20, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

coord template

I updated the code of the Geoboxes to make better use of the {{coord}} template and I found a minor glitch in it. When displaying Springfield, Illinois the decimal coordinates in the Geobox get broken into too lines; that wouldn't be a problem, but the last character on the line is the minus sign and the figure to which it belongs is displayed on the next one. Whether this occurs depends on every browser's settings so it doesn't always show this way. I'd suggest putting both longitude and latitude figures in a span with the style="white-space: nowrap" property. – Caroig (talk) 21:10, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. I suggest you ask for this on its talk page, with {{editprotected}}. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 22:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: UK Locations

I had my bot convert List of United Kingdom locations: Aa-Ak and I put the results in User:Madman bum and angel/Sandbox 2. The problem seems to be that the page length nearly doubles and the MediaWiki parser can't handle it. Thoughts? Subst:ing the templates is possible, but it'd be hell to edit afterward. Splitting it up even more just seems... ridiculous. — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 19:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I've just fixed a bug in that page, at the point where your test page it was breaking; please will you try again? Thank you. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 20:09, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd already encountered that error and compensated for it in my regexp. — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 20:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

That's odd; it must be coincidence that it was breaking at the same point. Could I ask you, please, to try another conversion, but at the same time change all the OS Grid refs from, e.g. {{gbmappingsmall|NN375352}} to NN375352; and save it on a different sandbox page? If that works, I'll try to get consensus to use that pattern. My tests show that 640 instances of {{coord}} should work; and I aimed for a max of ~540 per page when subdividing, to be safe. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 20:20, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

It goes farther without breaking, but it still breaks. — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 20:26, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

<!-- WARNING: template omitted, pre-expand include size too large -->

More information: Wikipedia:Template limits — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 20:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks - I'll try to read and digest that, and consider a solution, over the weekend, and get back to you. I knew that there was a limit, but thought we were under it. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 20:33, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Okey doke. — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 20:50, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, my bot has done as much as it can for you. Its check is below; any pages that need to be checked need to be checked because they didn't match the expected format. I started fixing them myself manually, but it shouldn't be too hard for you to do.

Bot Log

Jul 29 21:46:17 task7 [notice] No evidence of new format *or* old format on List of United Kingdom locations: Aa-Ak. Please review.
Jul 29 21:46:17 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Al
Jul 29 21:46:18 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Am-Ar
Jul 29 21:46:18 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: As-Az
Jul 29 21:46:19 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Bab-Bad
Jul 29 21:46:20 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Bae-Bak
Jul 29 21:46:20 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Bal
Jul 29 21:46:21 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Bam-Bap
Jul 29 21:46:21 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Bar
Jul 29 21:46:22 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Bas-Baz
Jul 29 21:46:23 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Be-Bn
Jul 29 21:46:23 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Boa-Bot
Jul 29 21:46:24 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Bou-Bra
Jul 29 21:46:24 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Bre-Bri
Jul 29 21:46:24 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Bro-Bron
Jul 29 21:46:25 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Broo-Brt
Jul 29 21:46:25 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Bru-Bun
Jul 29 21:46:25 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Bur-Bz
Jul 29 21:46:26 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ca-Cap
Jul 29 21:46:26 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Car-Cd
Jul 29 21:46:27 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ce-Chap
Jul 29 21:46:27 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Char-Che
Jul 29 21:46:28 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Chi-Ck
Jul 29 21:46:28 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Cl-Cn
Jul 29 21:46:29 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Co-Col
Jul 29 21:46:29 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Com-Cor
Jul 29 21:46:30 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Cos-Cra
Jul 29 21:46:30 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Cre-Cro
Jul 29 21:46:31 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Cru-Cz
Jul 29 21:46:31 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Da-Dd
Jul 29 21:46:32 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: De-Dn
Jul 29 21:46:32 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Do-Dr
Jul 29 21:46:32 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ds-Dz
Jul 29 21:46:33 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ea-Eass
Jul 29 21:46:34 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: East
Jul 29 21:46:34 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Eat-Ee
Jul 29 21:46:34 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ef-El
Jul 29 21:46:35 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Em-Ez
Jul 29 21:46:35 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Fa-Fe
Jul 29 21:46:36 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ff-Fn
Jul 29 21:46:36 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Fo-Foz
Jul 29 21:46:36 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Fr-Fz
Jul 29 21:46:37 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ga
Jul 29 21:46:37 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ge-Gl
Jul 29 21:46:37 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Gm-Gq
Jul 29 21:46:41 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Gr-Gred
Jul 29 21:46:42 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Gree-Gz
Jul 29 21:46:42 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ha-Ham
Jul 29 21:46:43 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Han-Har
Jul 29 21:46:43 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Has-Hd
Jul 29 21:46:43 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: He-Hem
Jul 29 21:46:44 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Hen-Hh
Jul 29 21:46:44 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Hi-Highr
Jul 29 21:46:45 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Highs-Hn
Jul 29 21:46:45 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ho-Hoo
Jul 29 21:46:46 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Hop-Ht
Jul 29 21:46:46 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Hu-Hz
Jul 29 21:46:48 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: I
Jul 29 21:46:48 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: J
Jul 29 21:46:48 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ka-Key
Jul 29 21:46:49 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Kib-Kin
Jul 29 21:46:50 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Kip-Kz
Jul 29 21:46:51 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: La-Laz
Jul 29 21:46:51 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Le
Jul 29 21:46:52 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Lf-Litm
Jul 29 21:46:52 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Litn-Liz
Jul 29 21:46:53 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ll
Jul 29 21:46:53 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Lm-Loi
Jul 29 21:46:53 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Lol-Lov
Jul 29 21:46:54 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Low-Loz
Jul 29 21:46:55 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Lu-Ly
Jul 29 21:46:56 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ma-Maq
Jul 29 21:46:56 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Mar-Md
Jul 29 21:46:57 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Me-Mic
Jul 29 21:46:57 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Mid-Mn
Jul 29 21:46:58 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Mo-Mor
Jul 29 21:46:58 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Mos-Mz
Jul 29 21:46:59 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Na-Nev
Jul 29 21:46:59 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: New-Newl
Jul 29 21:47:00 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Newm-Nh
Jul 29 21:47:00 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ni-North G
Jul 29 21:47:01 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: North H-Nz
Jul 29 21:47:01 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: O-Om
Jul 29 21:47:02 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: On-Oz
Jul 29 21:47:03 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Pa
Jul 29 21:47:03 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Pe-Pen
Jul 29 21:47:04 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Peo-Pn
Jul 29 21:47:04 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Po-Pzz
Jul 29 21:47:05 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Pr-Pz
Jul 29 21:47:05 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Q
Jul 29 21:47:05 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ra-Ray
Jul 29 21:47:06 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Re-Ror
Jul 29 21:47:06 task7 [notice] No evidence of new format *or* old format on List of United Kingdom locations: Ri-Rz. Please review.
Jul 29 21:47:07 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ros-Rz
Jul 29 21:47:07 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Sa
Jul 29 21:47:08 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Sb-Sf
Jul 29 21:47:10 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Sg-Sh
Jul 29 21:47:10 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Si-Sm
Jul 29 21:47:11 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Sn-Souts
Jul 29 21:47:11 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: South-South O
Jul 29 21:47:12 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: South P-Sp
Jul 29 21:47:12 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Sq-Stap
Jul 29 21:47:13 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Star-Sti
Jul 29 21:47:13 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Sto-St Q
Jul 29 21:47:14 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Str-Stt
Jul 29 21:47:15 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Stu-Sz
Jul 29 21:47:15 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ta-Tha
Jul 29 21:47:16 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: The-Thh
Jul 29 21:47:16 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Thi-Thw
Jul 29 21:47:17 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Ti
Jul 29 21:47:17 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: To-Tq
Jul 29 21:47:18 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Tr-Tre
Jul 29 21:47:19 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Tri-Tz
Jul 29 21:47:19 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: U-Uppeq
Jul 29 21:47:20 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Upper-Uz
Jul 29 21:47:20 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: V
Jul 29 21:47:20 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Wa-Wal
Jul 29 21:47:21 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Wam-Way
Jul 29 21:47:21 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Wd-West End
Jul 29 21:47:22 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: West M-Wey
Jul 29 21:47:22 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Weste-West L
Jul 29 21:47:23 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Wh
Jul 29 21:47:23 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Wi-Win
Jul 29 21:47:24 task7 [warning] Not done: List of United Kingdom locations: Wir-Wood
Jul 29 21:47:25 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Woof-Wy
Jul 29 21:47:25 task7 [notice] No evidence of new format *or* old format on List of United Kingdom locations: X. Please review.
Jul 29 21:47:25 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Y

Jul 29 21:47:26 task7 [info] All done: List of United Kingdom locations: Z

(Note: When it says "Not done", it means a couple rows were omitted. The majority of the page was reverted.) — Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 01:51, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Invite

Given your very frequent work on inline templates, I think you should definitely join WP:WPILT. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 17:23, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I'll have a look, later, and consider whether I can help there. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 18:35, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

coord parameter detection

Thanks, I hadn't noticed that {{coord}} works with several different coordinate formats. Nice programming. (SEWilco 03:53, 29 July 2007 (UTC))

We have User:Quarl to thank for that. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 09:55, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Your thoughts would be appreciated

Hi Andy, as a contributor to UK geography-related topics in the past, I wonder if you might be interested in taking a look at this AFD. I make no comment on the merits of the issue, but there is also some dispute over the title of List of largest urban sub-divisions in England by population too. Cheers, DWaterson 19:32, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, but I don't have a view, nor time to read the background. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 21:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

2007 United Kingdom floods

Hi, I see that you've deleted my edits to 2007 United Kingdom floods, can I ask why? Regards RaseaC 21:50, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

If you mean your addition of a scrolling box within the page; for accessibility reasons, per WCAG. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 22:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

By itself that means nothing; please direct me to where it explains what was wrong with my edits. Regards RaseaC 13:28, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I think you could make the leap of intuition, that there is something in the scrolling text block which is not so very accessible. If it helps, the Wikipedia Manual of Style advises "Don't use techniques that require physical action to provide information" Wikipedia:Accessibility. A scroll box does indeed require physical action to see the information below the bottom border; the scroll box is not needed, and so accessibility trumps whizzy div constructions. --Tagishsimon (talk)

To begin with I think you should read Wikipedia:Civility and change your tone accordingly. Secondly, I don't think it breaches the MoS as it requires no more effort than scrolling down the page, which in most articles the user has to do to reach the reference section anyway. Also, the scroll box is not needed is an opinion, just as my opinion is that it enhances the aesthetics of the article. I think the matter should be discussed. Regards, RaseaC 15:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Simon's comment was perfectly civil; and correct, and the issue has been discussed; see today's update to the MoS. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 15:29, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll have a look. And while on the subject, the comment was not 'perfectly civil' (I think you could make the leap of intuition), had it been I would not have I would not have written that comment. Regards, RaseaC 15:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Spare me your special pleading for your "good" idea. There is a world of difference between scrolling the page, and scrolling in a text block in the page, so far as adaptive technology is concerned. Your ignorance of the distinction does not negate that distinction. My temerity in pointing to your ignorance is no less uncivil than was my assertion that you should have been able to associate "Scroll Box" plus "for accessibility reasons" plus "WCAG" to come up with "there is something in the scrolling text block which is not so very accessible". You'll forgive me if I'm sufficiently lacking in civility to remark that I'm not a great supporter of laziness. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Having a scroll bar for the page itself is a necessary evil. Unless a user is running an incredibly-high resolution monitor, or has their text size very small, all users must scroll. Even Google results have a scroll bar. It is necessary to have a scroll bar. It is not necessary to have a second scroll bar in the references field, regardless of how many references are involved. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 16:49, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

The consensus here is obviosuly that the scrollbox should not prevail. The fact that I disagree with this is neither here nor there given the above arguments. Dreaded Walrus, thank you for your explanation, it was very useful.

Tagishsimon, I knew from the moment I read your edit summary that the reasoning behind your revert had something to do with accessibility. My only request was that you point me in the direction of the text which explicitly discusses scrollboxes. The fact that you view those that do not have the same knowledge of a subject as you as 'ignorant' is unfortunate, as an encyclopedia is it not our ultimate goal to inform? There is no point in me pointing out the uncivilness of your comments again, you are obviosuly aware of it and it's simply sad that you choose to conduct yourself in such a way while simultaneously contributing to something extraordinary. Regards RaseaC 01:16, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Rugby, Warwickshire + microformats

I just wondered if you were interested in joining the discussion on the Rugby, Warwickshire talk page.

Also, I see you are pushing (for want of a better word) microformats - I'm not sure I fully understand it, but if it has the effects that you mention on your project page, I'd be interested in learning more and helping where I can. Jza84 01:01, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

For microformats, please see WP:UF, and let me know if you need any help. I'll have a look at the Rugby page; thank you. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 07:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: hCalendar in Infobox Film and Infobox Single

Where should class="description" go in these two templates? Cheers. --MZMcBride 15:00, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Single:

! class="description" style="background: khaki; text-align: center;" colspan="3" | [[Single (music)|Single]] by {{{Artist}}

For films, on the "director" table-row. Thank you. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 15:07, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requested templates

I've found out why User:VanTucky thought you'd deleted part of this page, and commented on his talk page - it was caused by a minor mistake on your part, and a misunderstanding. Hope this can resolve things. – Tivedshambo (talk) 06:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

WP:BOTREQ

Hey, were you looking to have the {{coord}} in the same column on the page as the location or did you want to create a new column for the coordinates? ɑʀкʏɑɴ 22:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

A new column, please. Thanks for your assistance. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 22:37, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

• Take a look at the progress and see if you approve. I am unfamiliar with the hCard formatting, and when I apply it as you demonstrated in the request it breaks the table. I'm not sure if the Wikimedia software will undersatnd it as is, or if you have to explicitly delimit it with <div> tags. ɑʀкʏɑɴ 22:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Signpost updated for July 30th, 2007.

Apologies for the late delivery this week; my plans to handle this while on vacation went awry. Ral315

The Wikipedia Signpost Weekly Delivery

Volume 3, Issue 31	30 July 2007	About the Signpost

From the editor: Another experiment and Wikimania
Report on Citizendium	Response: News from Citizendium
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You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 00:22, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Bird collaboration of the month

As a member of WP:BIRD you are invited to this month's collaboration

Shyamal 02:10, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikivariable question

Hey, I need help with something and I was thinking you may be able to help. Do you know how you can output a variable in a template and not activate the wiki code contained within the variable?

So say I have variable asdf and the contents are said variable are [[Japan]]. How do I use that variable in a page such that I see [[Japan]] and not Japan? The only use I know of right now is to do {{{asdf}}} which will output the latter.

If that's clear enough, do you know how I can do this? Thanks! -Theanphibian ^{(talk • contribs)} 01:38, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I've never used it, but try outputting > and < instead of the angle brackets. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 08:07, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

See {{tl}}, {{tnull}} and try <nowiki>{{foo}}</nowiki>. --Jeremyb 11:01, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Template nomination for deletion

Hello, you were the creator or a main contributor to one of the following templates which has been nominated for deletion: Template:Infobox UK schools, Template:Infobox UK school, Template:Infobox College GB and Template:Infobox English Public School. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the templates' entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. CR7 18:57, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

A rose by any other name

Don't get upset when someone calls you Pigsonthewing. Particularly when edits are being discussed, it can be quite confusing if the name shown in the History is not the name being talked used. If someone says "Andy's edit after mine" then one goes looking for Andy in the History. It often is helpful to use the proper name for the context, yet switching between two names in one paragraph induces other kinds of confusion. (SEWilco 20:18, 6 August 2007 (UTC))

Infoboxes Person & Biography: merger proposal

In response to your request on my talk page:

I added comments at Template talk:Infobox Person to help answer questions about merging the three templates. I see you already redirected {{Infobox Biography}} to {{Infobox Person}}, while {{Infobox Celebrity}} is protected and therefore awaiting the assistance of an admin. -- Zyxw 06:21, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Your proposal about CSD R1

Hi there. Just a quick note to update you on this thread about your proposal to modify CSD R1. No-one else contributed to the discussion, and I've just updated it to note that the redirect was picked up the normal way and is about to be deleted, so if you want to add any more to the discussion, now would probably be the best time. I also left a note to the person who nominated the redirect for deletion, as he runs a bot that detects broken redirects, and if you still want your proposal to go through, he would need to modify the behaviour of the bot. See here. Carcharoth 08:38, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

AN/I discussion notice

Just an FYI that there is a current AN/I discussion about you. Or, more likely, about a troll impersonating you. I felt you should be aware of the discussion, either way. - TexasAndroid 17:34, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 18:29, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Radar Networks page

Hello Andy — noticed that you slapped a advert tag on the Radar Networks page. Please advise what exactly it is that you consider advertisement like. I used the Metaweb Technologies, Inc. article as reference, and only state facts and historical information. ---hthth 20:10, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

And I notice you also tagged the Metaweb Technologies article in the same way. I'm not going to remove it, but do you think you could post a comment in the talk page about which elements you think need reworking (same goes for Radar)? Thanks! -- Bungopolis 23:56, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the explantion given at the page linked to, from within the template is adequate. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 09:23, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I fail to detect bias and would therefore appreciate further input from you on the issue. I'd certainly like to maintain neutrality. Otherwise, who watches the watchmen springs to mind. ---hthth 12:15, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Your user page links to your blog, where you say "my brother was the chief architect of the underlying system during its conception, and is now on the board of advisors". Please read WP:COI. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 18:23, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. It says "my brother was", I have no relation to the company now, nor gain from writing this article other than covering an interesting company. Is this your only reason for marking the page? Is there nothing actually in the article itself that appears like an advertisement? I requested an editor to advise me when you refused to give specific comments. He suggested revisions, but also stated that he thought the article didn't deserve this tag and suggested I removed it. I don't know why you'd rather waste time trying to substantiate why I could be biased, rather than simply pointing out what I should fix in order to make the article better. You obviously think the article is written like an advertisement, and I'm simply asking you for help with fixing it by telling me your reasons. What's the problem? ---hthth 21:01, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

hCard vs coord

I think you might not be liking the coord|name= proposal because often the coordinates are in a list, with adjacent items which can be hCard items. Such as a list or table with a location name, address, and coordinates. With present Wikipedia methods there is no simple way to define that information once and have it both be emitted as text and as an hCard. I know that an hCard template might be able to do that, but there are problems due to the many ways in which the information is presently displayed. It will be nice when hCard can be used for all compatible data, but at present I think coord|name= is needed to help label coordinates. It can be converted to another incantation when Wikipedia technology advances, much as Wikipedia technology used to require many coordinate templates. Maybe we'll have to wait of m:WikiTextrose for a thorough item editing interface. (SEWilco 19:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC))

No. I'm opposed to it because it's broken. My not liking it has nothing to do with it. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 19:26, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

In what way is it broken? I think it breaks an hCard in which it is embedded. (SEWilco 20:28, 13 August 2007 (UTC))

That's one of the ways; I have covered all this previously, Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 20:29, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

And I've been trying to keep track of the details in lists. But the problems need to be listed for newcomers, particularly when the discussion has been brought to a new page. I'm trying to keep track of the problems which have been identified, not leaving the details splattered across six Talk pages, so they can be addressed. (SEWilco 21:13, 13 August 2007 (UTC))

BCN Chutes

Well I should have some 35 mm slides of these chutes that I took in the early 1970s. The 35 mm slides are not be as good as those images that you posted, but the chutes were in slightly better condition then.Pyrotec 20:34, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

COinS in Infoboxes

The recent changes to Template:Infobox Book and Template:Infobox Journal have added whitespace to the bottom of the template. This needs to be fixed ASAP. It looks quite bad and is appearing on every transclusion of both templates. Let me know when the code can be fixed in Template:Infobox Book and I will make the changes. Are there any templates that have been changed to use COinS that might have this same problem? Thanks. --MZMcBride 00:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I've reverted the changes to Template:Infobox Book and Template:Infobox Journal until this has been addressed. --MZMcBride 17:49, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, due to Template limits, the HTML comments that have been inserted into the various templates, including Template:Cite web and Template:Cite book need to be removed, as do the excessive spaces. The bytes add up and can lead to issues regarding the number of transclusions that can be done. Template documentation is where the information regarding what specific CoIN tags are for can go. --MZMcBride 17:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you address you concerns to whoever wrote the code. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 18:02, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

User:Pigsonthewing/scratchpad2, linked to from Template talk:Infobox Book#Edit-protected request: COinS metadata and added to Template:Infobox Book when an editprotected request was "filed." There's also this. Am I speaking with the wrong individual? --MZMcBride 20:35, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 20:46, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

TDWG

Good luck for your TDWG presentation. Would like to see any handouts on the topic, perhaps after the meet. Cheers. Shyamal 11:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, but I won't be there. Are they still listing me? I have written and told them! Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 11:41, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The schedule listed you (15 minutes), hence the message. Shyamal 11:48, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The schedule lists "Andy Mablett", your diminutive cousin. --Tagishsimon (talk)

I get used to it; and I've been called worse... Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 12:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Birmingham Bombings

I put citation in as I was not sure if IRA admitted this attack and so far no member of the IRA have been convicted of it. BigDunc 12:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Meanwhile, back in the phrasing discussion...

I split the nattering about implementation of kml into a subsection because that is separate from what the template's message should look like. Maybe you have more suggestions for the phrasing in the proposed box. [3] (SEWilco 14:54, 15 August 2007 (UTC))

...and the count of Keyhole Markup Language applications is up to nine (although I don't know if we'll have use for a Flikr view). Increasingly complicated interface. (SEWilco 19:43, 15 August 2007 (UTC))

Microfiche and WT:V

I've suggested that the addition of specifics to the discussion at WT:V be excised, placed on a talk page (I would suggest yours or dreftymac's); please see the page for more information. Dreftymac has agreed, so I thought I'd notify you of it in case you were about but hadn't seen the comment on the page yet. SamBC(talk) 18:55, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

GeoStar

File:Interlingual Barnstar.png		The Geography Barnstar
		Awarded for helping Wikipedia users find their places in the world. SEWilco 21:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Templates

I would like to see all templates, certainly new ones having (almost all) their parameter names lower case. This makes life a lot easier for many different reasons, not least that people frequently use the wrong case, which can only be safely and easily corrected automatically if the case is not dependent on the template the parameter belongs to. Thoughts? Rich Farmbrough, 10:40 17 August 2007 (GMT).

P.S. Bot approval just gone in for birth/death stuff.

It's a bit like driving; it doesn't matter whether you drive on the left, or the right - what matters is that everyone does the same! That said, lower case is easiest to type. We need to standardise the formula for multi-word parameter names. We should also standardise the parameter names themselves, so that, say, all biography related infoboxes use "name" rather than "actor-name", "person-name" or whatever. Thanks for the bot work. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 11:28, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Template:Infobox UK place

Hello again,

I just wondered if by any chance you could take a look at Template talk:Infobox UK place, where we've decided to go ahead and amalgamate the Isle of Man into this infobox (based on multiple cultural and geographic simillarities).

I've done some work on this, but I'm not a strong template editor and wondered if you could fix a couple of things, namely:

• "switch off" the List of United Kingdom locations when "country= Isle of Man" is entered.
• "switch off" the European Parliament field when "country= Isle of Man" is entered.
• swap Constituent country to Crown Dependency when "country= Isle of Man" is entered.
• "switch off" "Sovereign state: United Kingdom" when "country= Isle of Man" is entered.

I'm sure it's easy, I just don't know how! Hope you can help - I know from memory you're quite strong on this type of thing. Jza84 19:17, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I have a mock-transclusion of Castletown in my sandbox.

Sorry, that's beyond my capabilities. Try asking on WP:TR. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 19:43, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks anyway! Jza84 20:01, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually - I've pretty much cracked this one! However, I've messed up with one part so it's showing some of the bare syntax on transclusions (looks like I've used a switch where I shouldn't). I'd be eternally grateful if you could take a look at it?

Again, no problem if you can't help, I'll take it to the project if it's more technical than I believe. Jza84 23:12, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I've fixed it! My deepest apologies for the intrusion. Sorry about that. Jza84 23:21, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

There was no intrusion; no apology is necessary. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 09:39, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Hey Ya!

I've reverted your edits to the Hey Ya! article. Citations are not needed in the lead of an article if the information is referenced in the main article. 17Drew 23:43, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Were either of those claims sported by the citations in the article, you would have been right to done so. They are not, so you were not. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 09:29, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Inaccessible HTML

"Inaccessible HTML (coloured text, "small" tags", etc.) will be removed from this page on sight."
Could you explain what "inaccessible HTML" is? I couldn't find any information about it. Is my signature "inaccessible"? Melsaran 14:11, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is was. See WCAG and read up on contrast issues and colourblindness. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 14:15, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

So... Basically, everyone ought to get rid of colours in their signatures? :/ Melsaran 14:21, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

No, just inaccessible colours. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 14:24, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Which colours are deemed "inaccessible"? (sorry, I'm inexperienced with this stuff) Melsaran 14:29, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

It's more to do with contrast than specific colours - please see the above refs and thank you for fixing your sig!). Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 14:35, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay. Is this signature acceptable? It has only one colour, so contrast shouldn't be too much of an issue. Melsaran (talk) 14:53, 19 August 2007 (UTC) 14:52, 19 August 2007 (UTC)