User talk:Mushy Yank/Cadavers of the Loom

Archived conversations (from April, 4 2024 onwards); for earlier messages, see User talk:Mushy Yank/Arkive of the Boom and User talk:Mushy Yank/Dark hives of the Gloom.

Well known film, no article due to draft history

Since you have helped me in the past and I know you are of great help, I would like you to know about Draft:Family Star a released film which is not being able to go to main space at the moment. You can control-f my name and see my comment at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User_Zolgensma_NOTHERE which is valid. DareshMohan (talk) 20:37, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

AFDs

Hello, Mushy Yank,

First, I really hate this tilting talk page. It really is annoying and distracting. But that's not why I'm here.

Secondly, I think you might benefit from taking a break from participating in AFD discussions for a while, a few days or even a week. I see you getting very upset by the comments and stances of other editors and greatly invested in the fate of every single article whose deletion discussion you participate in. You can't have that kind of attitude and continue to participate in AFDs to the extent you do, it will just break your heart and wear you out. You need to have a little detachment, realize that even editors you greatly disagree with are trying their best and that some discussions will close the way you want while others don't. I face the fact that I'm responsible for deleting articles that, if it was up to me, I wouldn't delete and keeping other articles that I think are junk. But AFDs are decided by arguments and group consensus and sometimes yours might be a lone voice and be outnumbered by editors who are arguing against your stance who also have valid arguments.

I also have the feeling that I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know. I just see you as an incredibly valuable contributor to AFD discussions and I don't want to see you implode or get a civility block or any other unpleasant outcomes that can happen when editors just have had enough and blow a fuse. It's better to take a time out and return, refreshed days later. I want you around for a long time! Take care. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:44, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Liz:. Thank you for your message. All right, if you think it's better, I'll leave Afds; and (de)ProDs) and pages with notability issues by the same token (as they are quite interconnected). Thanks for the advice and concern! Yours,-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 09:23, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

notability

Is this film even notable The Ode? The reception section contains a student review from UCLA. DareshMohan (talk) 07:00, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello DareshMohan. There was an Afd and various users found it notable, so maybe it is indeed! I'll have a look.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 21:28, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Saw the notability tag on Shariq Hassan. I will add the reviews from his films. DareshMohan (talk) 19:34, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Relist

I saw the comment on the relist at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Silence 2: The Night Owl Bar Shootout. Valid point. I was surprised when The Hindu was thought to be unreliable (if you ask me even The Times of India articles are fine for film production). I feel that other editors have more privileges (and their voice is mainly heard), which oddly may Wikipedia seem communist.

There seems to be a bias, especially if a well known film like The Family Star doesn't get article (India has like 400k ppl who use internet and half of them probably are looking for English version) or if a film that will get reviews is deleted after reviews are written. This comment Even if 1,000 reviews were released, if all of them are just a few sentences, they can't be used. Additionally, paid reviews don't count either is uncalled for. Stuff like this makes me hate it here. DareshMohan (talk) 05:27, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello DareshMohan, I am not sure "communist" is the word! But I agree, that, at times, I am puzzled and disheartened by the way certain articles are treated or very clear guidelines applied or interpreted (and even when you ask, the answer you get, if you receive one, is at best unclear). I still don't understand the comment about your !vote there, for instance. Anyway, that was just a relist, and really not a big problem. So I've decided to consider it's not a big deal; after all, it's only on Wikipedia and the real world still exists. Thanks for your message. Cheers, -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 09:20, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

(This discussion is) Off the Record

Hiya! Seen your signature around before :D I'm wondering why you deprodded the article. Was there a source I didn't see or a notability guideline that I overlooked? Anyways feel free to participate in the afd that I've opened and tell me if there's anything I could've done better. Justiyaya 14:10, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Thor (The Asylum)

Would this be an acceptable time to be bold and WP:BLAR? 2605:B40:13E7:F600:80D4:D0B3:B66:64D9 (talk) 13:19, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I really have no opinion about that character, sorry, but sure, it can be considered an acceptable edit to BLAR and redirect to a section where the character is mentioned as an alternative to deletion if you think sources are not enough. So, yes, feel free to redirect the page and if you're reverted (that won't be by me) and you still think it really does not deserve a page, take it to Afd. Or you can ask on the TP of the article. Up to you! Thanks.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 15:28, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Unreliable sources

Hello - just a friendly reminder to please avoid adding unreliable references to pages. Thank you for your understanding! —Saqib (talk | contribs) 13:03, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello to you too. Thank you for your friendly reminder. But may I ask what sources specifically you happen to have in mind in both diffs and where there is consensus that these sources are considered unreliable? Thank you in advance.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 13:22, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. galaxylollywood.com and pakistanicinema.net are not reliable at all wherehas urdupoint is questionable. Even if there's no consensus or discussion yet, we can use WP:COMMONSENSE in determining their reliability for WP. --—Saqib (talk | contribs) 13:30, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I see. For your complete information, I did not add the ref to Urdupoint (as the diff you provided clearly confirms). So feel free to mention it to anyone who added it. But as it is only, according to you, "questionable" and not unreliable, allow me too to advise you to use common sense. As for the rest of your reply, I am sorry but you would have to come up with something a little bit more substantial next time you wish to open a section called "Unreliable sources" on someone'sTP and "friendly" remind them to "please avoid using unreliable references". At least, if you don't, I think you should change your approach and wording of what you consider to be the issue. Indeed, it seems correct to say that this is just your personal opinion based on nothing in particular. I am therefore not convinced but you can rest assured that, although I disagree with your opinion, I will not remove the tag you added on both (and other) pages. You might want to explain on each article TP what sources in particular you consider dubious, though. That would be helpful. Should you wish to pursue this conversation, may I invite you to do it on the concerned talk page(s)? Thank you.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 14:04, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I apologize if my choice of words seemed inappropriate. And it's not my intention to personally label these sources as unreliable. I'm confident @CNMall41: would agree with me and perhaps they can provide further insight on the matter. But still If you choose not to consider my information, that's entirely up to you. I hold no strong opinions on this matter. Regards! --—Saqib (talk | contribs) 14:16, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Also I didn't find your edit summary to be particularly respectful either. --—Saqib (talk | contribs) 14:20, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

ES: My turn to apologise, I don't remember what I wanted to write but "twit" in capitals was absolutely not what I had in mind (my edit summaries are sometimes completely insane for some reason, maybe automated corrections or just typing too hastily, I don't remember what I had in mind but not that and I didn't check, or would have mentioned it to you in advance). Sincerely sorry for that. For the rest, I did not choose "not to consider (any) information" you would have provided. You shared your opinion. I've paid attention, and I left the tag on the page. Again, feel free to ask or ping other users on the concerned page, where discussion of sources is probably more likely to be fruitful.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 20:09, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Lenny & Sid

TV Tropes is not a reliable source. It's a user generated wiki. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 10:26, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello to you too. Why mention this to me, if I may ask? I didn’t add it to the page.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 16:24, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Helping Hand Barnstar
		For work on international especially Italian, French films. DareshMohan (talk) 08:01, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks a lot DareshMohan! I appreciate the kind words. Yours, -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 08:36, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Pidgin (1997)

Italian film. Can you figure out if this is an 11-minute short film? [1] [2] DareshMohan (talk) 04:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello DareshMohan, I couldn't find sources about duration, except the link you sent me. But as it was one of his early films, and given he did other short films later, 11' could be indeed correct.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 15:28, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Can you find any reliable sources for Scream of the Ants other than [3]. I don't think [4] and [5] are reliable but not sure. DareshMohan (talk) 00:19, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello DareshMohan, I would consider AlternateEnding a review by an expert. But, anyway, GBooks offers at least 4 significant results: De-Westernizing Film Studies - Page 104. Makhmalbaf at Large: The Making of a Rebel Filmmaker - Page 215 ; Persianate Verse and the Poetics of Eastern Internationalism - Page 191 and India Today International - Volume 4, Issues 13-25 - Page 39. Best, -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 08:38, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Mushy, thanks for the help. Is the India Today source is referring to the director? Scream Of The Ants ( see film in India , Scream Of The Ants ( see box ) , has had an agonising experience . After an inordinately long wait of 15 years when he finally realised the dream of shooting a film in the coun- try , he ran ... DareshMohan (talk) 06:34, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes. "After waiting for 15 years, illustrious Iranian filmmaker Mohsen Makhmalbaf finally shoots his first film in India but emerges with the lament that corruption is her greatest enemy"., says the only bit I can access now.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 07:34, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Take a look at Draft:Scream of the Ants and expand it. I wish there was a second reliable review. DareshMohan (talk) 07:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Waqar Zaka

Hello again - Not trying to WP:CANVASS, but I thought I would ask your opinion on this person from Pakistan who's been involved in directing, producing, and creating some TV shows. Do you think they qualify based on NDIRECTOR/NPRODUCER? --—Saqib (talk I contribs) 17:30, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello Saqib. In fact I had had a look at that page but I didn't read the AfD, because it looked too long and chaotic! And I confess I find it tricky so I didn't vote (:D). There's a lot of coverage quoted, so I think there is a case for notability all in all, if one takes into consideration the presentation by the journalist before the interviews cited, and decides they are secondary sources. On the other hand, this being said,I don't know exactly what he is most notable for, maybe for being a multi-faceted celebrity associated with various notorious episodes, so if one says this falls under WP:ONEVENT, then you have to oppose the guideline multiple times, which may sound a tiny bit absurd. Perhaps his notability remains mostly based on the fact that he was hosting Champions with Waqar Zaka? Maybe a merge should be considered then, but I see the notability of the show is challenged too. So it's a quite tricky one. But, although his chameleon-like career does puzzle, yes, I'd say he looks rather notable to me, personally. Still, I have seen clearer cases of apparently notable actors or directors for which the same type of coverage was dismissed for being sensationalist, not independent enough, unreliable and/or not in-depth. As for WP:NPRODUCER, specifically, he only co-produced one notable show, as far as I can see, so really not sure. This is more a grey/yellow case for WP:ENT or GNG, imv. Best, -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 19:48, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

You might have formed an opinion that I'm against Pakistani showbiz articles and are probably wondering why I'm sticking up for Waqar Zaka. You might think I've got some kind of COI or maybe I'm just a superfan. But the fact is this guy is a big deal! Every single legit Pakistani RS labels him as a popular figure. Still can't wrap my head around why someone's so keen on axing his BLP.

For example, DAWN refer him a as a television and social media personality, Pakistan Observer call] him a once a known face in Pakistani showbiz , The Express Tribune states he has a cult following that his show more popular than any other reality show in Pakistan, Samaa TV refer to him as the prominent Pakistani TV host, social media influencer, The Nation says he's a Pakistan's prominent reality TV host, VJ and stunt performer, Daily Times refer to him as a Renowned Pakistani celebrity and the famous television host and stunt performer while The News International says he is One of television’s famed personalities and the list goes on. --—Saqib (talk I contribs) 11:12, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Here's an interesting tidbit: even Jimmy Wales once edited his BLP. —Saqib (talk I contribs) 11:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Who's Jimmy Wales? Anyway, as I told you twice above, I do think he looks rather notable as a celebrity, yes, so I am not the one you need to convince here. Best,-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 17:31, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Since the BLP is gone now, may I ask you why there wasn't any support to keep the BLP then if you think he's a notable figure. I mean I've seen your efforts to save articles related to Pakistani showbiz, which is commendable, but why not keep vote on the Zaka's BLP. Just trying to understand the reasoning behind it. Thanks! —Saqib (talk I contribs) 18:24, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Support from me, you mean? I didn't vote K or R because my !vote would have almost certainly been considered the result of votestacking, although you mentioned it was not your intent to be canvassing (but you assume from my recent !votes, as you say, that I generally !vote Keep and your message might have been deemed inappropriate and biased) which would not have served nor you nor the page, imv. The page was deleted? Feel free to expand the page about Champions with Waqar Zaka, then. They are evidently closely connected and I think a paragraph about WZ would be appropriate. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 18:55, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

No - I wasn't expecting your keep vote after my comment on your tp. I was hoping for it before I started THIS thread, especially since you mentioned you were aware of this AfD and you felt he was a notable figure. Anyways, I'll drop this topic now as this AfD draw some unwanted negative attention towards me. And I'm not really looking to expand on this article. I'm not particularly interested in these kinds of articles. It's just that I recently started doing NPP and somehow, I've had to deal with showbiz related topics. --—Saqib (talk I contribs) 19:18, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I'll rephrase/repeat: I had had a rapid look at that page and found it tricky, took a glance at the Afd and found it looked long and chaotic (so I didn't even read it). Then you came and kindly asked me for my opinion. I took the time to reply after having done some further searching and found that he looked rather notable after all, since that was your question. You replied (without thanks but with various assumptions), and presented me sources. What were they for, since I had said I found him rather notable? I'm not sure.

If he had been an actor, I might have done some searching in the first place and !voted but I saw he was not, and was a host/celebrity, who did not seem obviously notable, and as I did not have time nor interest to dig any further then, I didn't search (and therefore didn't !vote). Had he been a real actor, even then, I don't !vote on all pages about actors, or series or films. I had no time nor interest, that's why. I voted on many Afds recently and mentioned, to you, that it took me more time than I wished. I am not certain why I have to explain this. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 19:58, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to explain things. And allow me to clarify that I shared the source earlier today on this tp, after seeing your comments. My aim wasn't to sway you into voting to keep the BLP. I simply wanted to highlight that if Pakistani RS recognize this guy as a significant figure, then what's up with folks trying to delete the BLP. —Saqib (talk I contribs) 20:21, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 23:25, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Semmalar Annam

Despite having interview sources, she doesn't feel notable. All of her sources simply mention her short films and her role in Ammani (supporting role). Out of the twenty-so films that she acted in almost all of them are minor roles. Minor meaning a level below supporting sometimes having no dialogues at all (other such actors don't have articles). For supporting roles only having many (like a ton) could potentially make her notable. DareshMohan (talk) 07:38, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello DareshMohan, she received 2 awards in 2021but they could be considered minor (and Sennai has no page). The first article in The Hindu , although presenting an interview contains a few elements that might count; but the rest is imv not enough indeed. What I suggest is to redirect to Ammani because that's what she was noted for (that has a page). Draft might be an option. It's a pity because it's clean but WPNACTOR/ DIRECTOR are not met and GNG, neither, apparently. User:Greenbangalore, who created a page, might know. If another of her roles is significant enough and in a "blue" film, the page could be kept as such (but that might challenged). For example, if Sennai can be considered notable (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/tamil/movies/news/jaikumar-sedhuramans-sennai-wins-big-at-nepal-film-fest/articleshow/88371149.cms) or sources back the claim it"s notable, because her role has received awards (although minor) that prove it"s significant. Best, -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 07:58, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

I voted as speedy keep. I feel that we both made mistakes (mine was the edit conflict where I mentioned those 2 roles here at the same time you responded). I could have simply again asked before nominating but I only knew more about the two roles after writing so much in the deletion discussion. I was unsure about redirecting because I thought articles (or only film articles?) can be redirected if they are not 90 days or older. To not make the article deletion entirely pointless, can you work on improving the article? Would you support modifying her filmography to show lead roles and minor roles in different tables or rather independent films and noon-Independent films separately. I can add a Reference column and try to cite the roles. DareshMohan (talk) 18:46, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

I'll try! Thank you for your understanding. Yours,-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 19:00, 24 May 2024 (UTC)