User talk:MarciaThomas

Hello MarciaThomas, and Welcome to Wikipedia! Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Also, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Dppowell (talk) 00:07, 22 July 2008 (UTC) Getting started Introduction The five pillars of Wikipedia How to edit a page Finding your way around Table of contents Department directory Editing articles How to develop an article Manual of Style Getting help Frequently asked questions Cheatsheet Where to ask a question Help pages New contributors' help page How you can help Contributing to Wikipedia Community Portal Follow Wikipedia etiquette Practice civility

Dppowell (talk) 00:07, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Ed Ludbrook

Hi there, MarciaThomas. In order for the Ed Ludbrook article to have a chance of surviving, you need to provide some evidence that he is notable. Please look over the notability guidelines. Thank you. Dppowell (talk) 00:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Edward Ludbrook

I think you will find if you serach on Google for Edward Ludbrook that it comes up with some 16,700 entries..MarciaThomas (talk) 01:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps, but all of the hits I've seen so far are promotional in nature. Does he have third-party press coverage (for example, newspapers/magazines/TV, not a press release)? You need to provide evidence that he is objectively notable. Dppowell (talk) 02:00, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Ed Ludbrook deletion

You didn't really give me very much time to sort this article out before you deleted it! I am disappointed. I am doing my best to collate all the information I need to show Ed Ludbrook's 'notability' and I come back to give you this information and the page has already gone! MarciaThomas (talk) 03:12, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Ed Ludbrook - Notability

I appreciate your Notability rules and include some third party reference materials. The challenge with your rules is that they do not fit with all environments. If notability is measured in that recognised by the government, media or retail stores then your system is flawed.

The Direct Sales industry is a massive US$100billion+ global industry in over 100 countries, 10,000 companies and over 67 million people worldwide. Its media imprint is limited as it sells without media advertising, not through retail stores. The notable people in this industry will not register on the normal channels.

The fact is that Ed Ludbrook is internationally notable in the Direct Sales world. He is Europe’s best-selling author on the subject of Direct Sales and one of the world’s best-selling authors. 2million copies in 20 languages. Books in this industry are not sold through retail stores, they are sold through independent agents, see www.knowledgeisking.co.uk, www.spectrummarketing.com.au

What is interesting is that Wikipedia is very happy to classify someone like NZ author/poet Albert Wendt to be notable yet Ed, who has sold 20 times as many books and is actually NZ’s best-selling business author ever, would not be considered. Should the fact he does not seek or need government, academic and media recognition matter?

We also assume that media and government profile is also not important for notability otherwise Wikipedia would never recognise people like Christian author/speaker such as John Bevere.

I also thought I would add a couple of extra links that you might like to peruse for Ed's Notability!

http://www.leadershipgurus.net/leadershipgurus30.php Ed is ranked number 23 in the world top leadership gurus. To see the criteria for this go to http://www.leadershipgurus.net/leadership_award.html Other people who feature in the Top 30 include Steven Covey, Anthony Robbins, Jim Collins, John Maxwell, Tom Peters to name just a few! All of whom appear on Wikipedia!

http://networkmagazyn.pl/article/nawidelcu/nawidelcu_16_p08.html Please see the article (although in Polish) is in Poland's top Network Marketing Magazine where Ed features on the front page alongside Donald Trump.

I would be grateful if you could please re-instate Ed Ludbrook's profile. Many thanks --MarciaThomas (talk) 03:34, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

leadershipgurus.net does not meet our standards as a reliable source. We need something that indicates notability in the mainstream environment. Covey, Robbins, Peters: all have published books with real publishers available at real bookstores (and also Borders, Amazon, etc.); all have achieved recognition in the outside world beyond infomercials. (Some of the others you mention may only be here because nobody has bothered to nominate them for deletion yet.) --Orange Mike | Talk 15:54, 22 July 2008 (UTC)