User talk:Anoghena Okoyomoh

User talk:Anoghena Okoyomoh I want to contribute to Wikipedia by highlighting emerging new African and Nigerian voices

Yinka Ash

A page I edited because I noticed not much is said about him Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 04:54, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Welcome!

Hello, Anoghena Okoyomoh!

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Happy editing! Cheers, QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 23:15, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For your excellent work on Yinka Ash, especially as a very new editor! I hope you can enjoy your time here on Wikipedia! QuickQuokka [⁠talk • contribs] 23:16, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, It's amazing, I wanna see if I can become good enough to move to history and the arts. But to be honest, this is so good, it's like I'm learning and contributing knowledge simultaneously and I feel good. Thank you so much again. Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 08:14, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Yinka Ash

I'm a little more skeptical about your amazing abilities as a new editor than QuickQuokka. I'm pretty good at sniffing out paid editors and sockpuppets, so I'll give you one chance before I start doing a deep dive and find out more about you - is this your first account? Do you have a COI with Yinka Ash? Honesty is the only thing that will save you at this point. Fred Zepelin (talk) 01:57, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Dear Fred Zepelin, my initial reaction to seeing that yet again you have placed the banner of me most likely being a paid editor on this particular article, was to gather as much evidence as possible to convince you that is in fact NOT the case, some of the evidence was to give you my email (which I had done so previously, when messaging you on your talk page asking for advice and help on becoming a much better wikipedia editor), my social media handles like Instagram i.misinterpret and X (twitter) iMisinterpret, to show you that never have I ever purported nor advertised to be a freelance writer nor any Wikipedia savant for hire.

So, I'll start like this, my name is Anoghena Omoh Idonget Okoyomoh, I am a Lawyer situate in Nigeria, in the West African hemisphere, you can find me in the aforementioned social media handles, or check my Linkedn page (same name; Anoghena Okoyomoh) if you need further proof, as to why I am an amazing editor, that I can answer. You see, not only do I write legal documents, review agreements and provide reserach reports for a living, but prior to beginning this journey as an editor I tried as much as possible to make my research on all I need to be knowledgeable about, More so, I worked as the legal officer for a publishing house and have helped my writer friends edit their pieces, articles or short stories. I cannot begin to explain how frustrating it is to see articles about Africa that are factually incorrect or Nigerian articles that do not us the right spelling or give generic information when specificity is what is most needed, the very first thing I did was to contribute by correcting spelling, changing minor facts and citing Nigerian authorities on articles that just weren't cutting it on the subject matter raised.

This article for Yinka Ash, I became invested in because it was one of the articles Wikipedia had suggested that I contribute to, more so, he is a celebrated artist here in Lagos, his streetwear is fire and I pass his Ashluxe store on my way to the company I work for. I made my research and he seemed even more interesting, I attended Lagos fashion week (a very small fashion event for budding Nigerian fashion designers) and saw some of his collection and felt it might be right for me to update his wikipedia page.

I write well, because I am educated, I am good because I'm a quick study, I am not a "sockpuppet" and I will not disclose or admit to anything that is NOT true, if you'd like my financial details and my Supreme Court Number to help with your deepdive, email me, I'll gladly supply same to you.

I will say it again for the record I do not have any contractual obligation with Yinka Ash to do any wikipedia page for him, in fact I'm beginning to understand why the first account who started this page was banned and/or discouraged from continuing, Honestly, so long as it's not in the realm of your existence you see no reason as to why such a page should exist, but pages like his and countless POCs should be just as celebrated as a recurring actor on Grey's Anatomy whose page is more thorough than people who rise above every single day. I have started 7 Articles in my Sandbox that now I am not keen on publishing despite me having done everything possible to make sure it complies with the standard of practice, simply because I know accounts like yours will hinder it based on bias and suspicions that are unwarranted completely and wholly. other accounts have helped me and assisted me in making sure that I do the right thing or just to contribute in any way possible.

I say that Honesty is not going to save me, because you've already made up your mind that I am a fraud (however, implicit you said it) or a bot, and nothing I explain or write will change your mind. Wikipedia is supposed to be a well of knowledge, I used this article to learn and hone my skill and you insist yet again that I am duplicitous, have you bothered to read the content, you may not know it but everything this man has achieved is a big deal to a lot of artists in Lagos and Nigeria and anyone who chooses to google or check him out should have that knowledge.

So, here's the deal, I am too grown and adult to insist on being in a space that doesn't want me, I came on here with the best of intention and call it whining or being a child, but this minor bullying from you I choose not to deal with it; to answer your other question this is indeed my FIRST account and it is going to be my last, I intend to cancel the account and have no intention on dealing with this anymore. Have a lovely experience and you have your arena back, I'm out and I am done.

Kind regards,

Anoghena OKOYOMOH Esq. Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 07:14, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

@Fred Zepelin well, are you satisfied, because I thought this was meant to be a query, and I haven't heard back from you yet, or are you still insistent on me being a bot/sockpuppet or a Fraud. Upon further discussion with the people around me, I've decided that me leaving would only prove your point and give you lee way to make your inquest justified Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 19:21, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Do you know Yinka Ash personally? Fred Zepelin (talk) 03:20, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

No, I do not. I've spent the previous days combing through as much materials to add as citation, scared that I messed up and making sure it's neutral, re-written and re-done my sandbox articles and everything to make sure I stay neutral. I have never met him neither physically nor over the phone, be it text or email or any form of correspondence, only association was when I researched his team, introduced myself to his assistant and asked her if I could have a photo cause I intended to contribute to his Wikipedia page. Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 03:30, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I just went through the criteria for UPE on Wikipedia forum and just realised that I check the red flags, this was unintentional, while I maintain that I am not an Undisclosed Paid Editor I understand where you are coming from, I will undo your edit and move on from this article. As a newcomer I felt that Wikipedia was specific to making sure that all articles are properly sourced and no misrepresentation is made to what is written down; I apologise for not getting myself apprised with the intricacies of Wikiepedia culture before beginning this, truly.

I think it would be best if I completely stop making edits on this page and contribute to other pages. I will as well put a pause of publishing my sandbox articles. That being said @Fred Zepelin, please - and I am begging - for the sake of next time, it would have been most helpful to respond to accounts on your talk page and actually explain why you do what you do, though you are somewhat justified in pointing me out, your approach was adversarial and not educating, It took me having to go to chat pages outside of Wikipedia to get this knowledge; often times their response was to quit as certain admins and accounts have tendencies to bully new accounts and discourage contributions. You only reply when I undo your actions and never for the simple things (not cool).

To reiterate, I apologise for my snafu and will do the necessary steps going forward. I will be undoing your banner of UPE and moving on from this particular article to other articles that I can simply edit and contribute to. I still politely ask that you give advice or guidance when I ask for it and hope this entire interaction will not stop you from giving said help to me, I will as well be reaching out to other accounts for help and making research on the culture of Wikipedia and not the positive rule and laws. Again, I am so sorry. I will be taking a step further to send an email to Wikipedia's COIN and explain this situation. furthermore, I will be spending more times in the talk pages rather than jumping the gun.

p.s: some of the articles pointed out on the nomination for deletion, I feel that given the right time I can expand on same and make it a verifiable, would that be grounds for it being reinstated, I speak specifically to African articles. I await your reply thank you.

Kind regards,

Anoghena OKOYOMOH Esq. Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 05:18, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

saying hello

This is a followup to my response to you on WP:Teahouse.

Just as a little piece of fun content I came across a couple of years, see this post by Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales, Fabrickator (talk) 17:18, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so very much. I have every intention to reach out on your talk page and ask follow up questions, truth is that I messed up badly with my first major contribution has got me feeling rather incompetent. I just didn't know what I was doing wrong and most times it felt like people were more willing to mete out punishment than actually explain why what I was doing was wrong, but, it's nice to know that I can reach out. Thank you. Was this close to quitting all together and calling it a failed venture.

Again thank you so much, Kind regards. Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 18:20, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Ha ha! I have had my share of run-ins. In fact, the Jimmy Wales link was the last part of my discussion that started with this small addition to Wikipedia article about Michael Moore. I added the statement that Michael Moore had just started a podcast. There were plenty of sources about the podcast, but not necessarily suitable (e.g. not from a WP:RS). So I added a Template:Citation needed, indicating that I recognized the need to provide a source. Three hours later, another editor reverts my addition. I revert the change and add a source I had been able to locate in the interim, but a couple of weeks later, he responds about my original edit, resulting in a 10-screen-long discussion at User talk:Fabrickator#Sourcing for claim of Michael Moore "Rumble" podcast. My final response was the quote that I found from Jimmy Wales. This was one of the very few times where there was what I would consider a successful resolution. Fabrickator (talk) 19:25, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in my response, I have a bad case of the Flu, I wanna thank you for particularly making me know that I am not alone when navigating the intricacies of Wikipedia policies explicit or implicit. I don't know if it would be a breach of the rules, but I will be grateful if you take a look at the Yinka Ash article whenever you're chanced; like a superior makes correction to initial draft by subordinate or just a simple review from someone more qualified. I will be grateful and I will learn. Again thank you for your help, I will use the materials you have provided and study more. Kind regards, Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 10:07, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

thoughts on Yinka Ash

Sorry about delay in getting back to you on this.

I realize that the issue has been raised about there being some connection you might have with Ash. I've kind of been somewhat skeptical about this criteria ... it seems almost an admission that we have no objective way to judge neutrality, and if it were the case that there was no way to effectively address the issue of neutrality, that seriously undermines the premise (or perhaps, the promise) of WP, i.e. that it should abide by WP:NPOV. So the whole business about having some kind of connection with the subject of the article is just a shortcut that attempts to avoid addressing NPOV directly.

The point here is that one who is enamored of someone may find it challenging to maintain NPOV.

Now what is the basis for thinking this applies to you?

1. Simply that out of many thousands of articles you might have worked on, this is the one you chose to work on. (There's a catch-22 for you!)
2. You're stretching things. You're introducing facts that are really of dubious relevance, in an effort to support WP:Notability.

I suggest you try to "step outside of yourself" when evaluating/editing this article. IMO, his "love of design" (however that has been established) and mention of "community service" are not merely not verifiable, but they're subjective and/or extraneous. And things don't really get better.

The major first step in his career being that of personal shopper? This is perhaps slightly pertinent, but it's pretty weak. BTW, what did he study at Caleb? How does it relate to his career? If not, maybe it doesn't belong.

The whole article is like this. (I haven't bothered to look at which of this pre-dates your edits, but in a sense, it doesn't matter.) The article gives the impression that somebody is very much trying to build up the subject, based on pretty mundane facts. He might or might not meet the notability requirement, but it's not going to do any good if you violate NPOV in the process.

(Now my big disclaimer ... this is probably my first effort seriously considering these issues in an article. It's possible I'm way off base ... or maybe I'm merely overstating things. Either way, I suggest you consider it as a data point. Maybe you try to eliminate all the hype, and see if there's still an article to be had, or perhaps you reduce the hype so that it's less objectionable. While generally speaking, there's plenty of things to be discussed about WP, trying to neutrally evaluate notability is not my forte.) Fabrickator (talk) 07:51, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

I actually agree with you, when looking at the wikipedia pages of other people that are deemed of "note", it's clear that his particular article does seem a bit more like an ad and not all the way objective. I chose this article because he's (a) Nigerian like me and (b) it was just easy for me to get sources, I thought his article was a stub because no one thought he was worthy to have a good article page. I think my overzealousness led to the UPE accusation. I can't help but ask that if he was a foreigner would it be of the same standard. And I do agree that no one has properly told me what is the parameters for the UPE stamp; I had to figure out by myself that it's merely because I was the only one heavily contributing to his page. I tried to cite as much authority, but like I've just been educated on, using the words from the cited source is a big no no as that itself makes it subjective and not in any way neutral. I have noticed that better editors are cleaning up the article and I'm learning from their edits, taking notes on the wordings and the phrasing. Him being a personal shopper and his degree from school was the most consistent and recurring attribute in all newspaper articles about him, so I just thought it was relevant. Thank you so much, I will going forward in my contributions on any article be sure not to hype or better still just not do biographies anymore and focus on history and legal articles. You have been amazing and words cannot describe how grateful I am that you'd even take the time to answer my questions. Truly thank you. Kind regards, Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 06:58, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate your "good faith" recognition of my feedback. I suppose this was the first time where I held myself out to offer an opinion. More commonly, I am offering my "unsolicited opinion" (such as after doing a revert), which is not necessarily appreciated.

Regarding whether this is different because it's regarding someone not from US/UK, etc., yes and no. Yes, because we can't readily appreciate the "standing" of the sources (e.g. we are familiar with "Forbes" but might not be sure whether "ForbesAfrica" deserves similar standing), but no, because the claims were really quite weak.

FWIW, there are those times when I come across WP articles which make me wonder why they exist, at least in current form. One such examples would be Reputation. This article attempts to be general, i.e. reputation in numerous contexts. Typically (well, perhaps among adolescents), it's a disparaging term among "easy" females. Generically, it's whatever third-parties' perspective on some person or business, etc. In other words, instead of having an article covering numerous contexts in which the word "reputation" might apply, it attempts to cover all contexts. Worse (IMO), it gets into "reputation management". From my perspective, the article attempts to be very broad, then presents citations to support different views, but has to make you wonder what "managing reuptation" means. For a young female, that would mean "don't be so easy", for a large business, it's about how you present yourself to the public, and so forth.

It appears that this article is really presented from the perspective of the field of sociology, which seemingly lumps these things all together as though that makes some kind of sense, while I find this kind of dubious. My suggestion for this article would be to divide it into various articles, which would provide for much greater coherence. There are corporate reputations, online reputations, personal reputations. And separate articles would be so much more coherent. Not necessarily the worst article on WP, but one that I think WP would probably be better off without it than having it in its current state. (Ok, just my rant of the moment.) Fabrickator (talk) 17:24, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for the delayed response, was still under the weather and I had to go through the wringer to get better. I did what I usually do when I'm in a conundrum on matters or discrepancies, I did my research. Do you know that majority of Nigerians who have decided to go the extra mile and get Wikipedia profiles and choose to edit works, have had their works removed or their accounts banned and deleted? I'm not joking, I went to a Nairaland forum, which is like a youth reddit for Nigerians and when I posed the question on who is an expert on Wikipedia guidelines and is willing to help me in learning, those who had shared their experiences of bullying and accusations placed on them and it was disheartening. About six of them all professional workers, and belonging to professional bodies and even some having gotten their masters in other countries all accused and frustrated out of Wikipedia. I'm not a pioneer so I have no intention to fight the system, but if this is true, Wikipedia has a lot to do regarding bias exuded by other Wikipedia accounts. Kind regards, Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 10:16, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Canvassing, meatpuppetry

This is a blatant example of WP:CANVAS. You went to the talkpage of an editor that was edit-warring after my removals of their dubious additions looking for an ally, and you found one. Congratulations. Unfortunately, that's not allowed. It could also easily be called WP:MEATPUPPET, and if it continues, it's WP:TAGTEAM. Read all of those sections before you reply. Fred Zepelin (talk) 22:52, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Have you read the book Fahrenheit 451? you see, It's a tad concerning that you don't see that what you do is dangerous, limiting knowledge is just as dangerous as false information. I read the article by the so called dubious editor and It is verbose and voluminous, now the current article contains less than nothing. I also would say that your mannerisms on wikipedia is less contributing to information and more adversarial. You could have had a conversation with me regarding your qualms instead you chose to use less than savory terms to associate me with. You still haven't told me why you think I'm a UPE, it seems that there is a sort of group you belong to that when you go after someone they justify your acts, and you brag about it too. Let me ask you, how many "UPEs" that you got banned ended up not being UPEs but just me and less stubborn to reply and fight back.

I'll highlight this, you only engage with me when I remove your tag of UPE and when I reached out for help you ignored me and yet expected me to figure out what YOU deem as acceptable Wikipedia contributions (that's a form of booby trapping). as well, I reached out to an editor - last I checked was not disallowed - who felt just as I felt, that I was being unfairly targeted and labelled by someone who had decided by himself who I am as an individual and an editor, what he did after, I did not expect, I simply asked him, how he dealt with it? I also reached out to other editors in the past to help with the article which they did and their contributions were greatly appreciated, did this new one go overboard, yes.

Call it whatever you want, the article has been nominated for deletion; I will still fight for my article, this is the genesis of me being a wikipedia editor and I am not willing to give up yet. If you're really interested in this article page, then make it better, make it plausible, make it verifiable, cause it might seem inconsequential to you, but little things like this build to larger things, burn one page of a book, burn society at large.

Oh! again, not a sockpuppet not a UPE.

Kind regards, Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 07:24, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Since you just said "I will still fight for my article" (emphasis mine), I believe you also need to read WP:OWNBEHAVIOR. Let me know when you understand that concept. Fred Zepelin (talk) 03:25, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much Fred, I appreciate the material and I will read and digest same.

Kind regards, Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 05:53, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Section on COIN noticeboard

Hi @Anoghena Okoyomoh: Could you put that section at coin in the right place, where the prior discussion is taking place. It breaks talkpage guidelines and looks weird. Thanks. scope_creep^Talk 09:31, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh, okay sorry. Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 09:32, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. scope_creep^Talk 11:15, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Follow up

Hi @Anoghena Okoyomoh: I understand where your coming from, re: the message at coin. I got my first article deleted and its difficult thing. When I got 7 articles deleted at one time, it almost drove me mad, seriously. I don't think folk are trying to run you off. Writing non-promotional articles is hard, particularly for BLP's as much of what is on the internet is dross and promotional by its very nature. It seems that everybody must have a personal brand and that effects the quality of the article. For coi and particulary UPE it becomes a core problem for Wikipedia and it must be addressed as the only thing we have here, our only product is facts. The message I left, was a demarcation line. Its part of the process and it needed to be said. I'm sorry it was so harsh. Come back and I'll show you how to write perfect articles. scope_creep^Talk 21:57, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate you reaching out. I understand my article being deleted, I don't like it, it sucks but I get it. But I went behind the curtain and I don't like what I saw. For talk about community all I've seen is meanness, there is no situation that called for Fred treating me the way he did. Your so called "demarcation words" was poor timing but still weird and quite frankly slightly cruel. it's a shame but I guess I'll just be another trophy for Fred. I'm a grown ass man, I don't have the bandwidth to fight with yet another stubborn intellectual smug.

I genuinely hope the next me you meet in future you'd show some semblance of kindness.

I found people who witnessed the whole mess and are kind enough to take their time to teach me and show me the ropes and this time they didn't start off by calling me names.

Kind regards, Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 18:59, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

No one called you any names. There are no trophies. You never bothered to notice that when I was talking about UPE, I was talking about the original creator of the article. Given that UPE, and the fact that Hazooyi has been blocked for evading their previous block under a different account, and that Hazooyi randomly showed up at the deletion discussion for the Yinka Ash article to vote "keep" (despite never voting in one before), and the fact that you started working on the article 5 days after the original UPE went dormant, you should probably be thankful that this account has evaded sanction. If you're truly interested in improving Wikipedia, you can use this account to do it. If you have any other motives, you're probably not going to achieve your goals. I just calls em like I see em. Fred Zepelin (talk) 22:20, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Okay. Anoghena Okoyomoh (talk) 11:45, 16 March 2024 (UTC)