Template talk:Did you know nominations/2019 renaming of South African National Defence Force reserve units

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... that in 2019 the South African army's Natal Carbineers were renamed the Ingobamakhosi Carbineers after a Zulu regiment that had fought against them at the 1879 Battle of Isandlwana? [2023-03-16 at 22:08:36, by Ravenpuff]
... that in 2019 the South African army's Natal Carbineers were renamed the Ingobamakhosi Carbineers, after a Zulu regiment that had fought against them at the 1879 Battle of Isandlwana? [2023-03-16 at 22:10:31, by Ravenpuff]

GalliumBot (talk • contribs) (he/it) 22:26, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's a pity that doesn't show or report on the ongoing controversy BoonDock (talk) 12:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi BoonDock, have you got any sources? More than happy to incorporate any additional info - Dumelow (talk) 13:46, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I can show you some facebook discussions only. Other discussions are private message groups.

I cannot really get involved too much in this because of my involvement. I am the person who called Gen Kampher and Gen Anderson cowards in public (offering them white feathers) and my commentary and activism on the issue is what prompted Gen Kampher to write the article which is heavily quoted on the page justifying the name changes. He never had the courage to reply to me directly, although Anderson did reply to me that in spite of my objections being valid, "it was a compromise". I challenged him that he should have resigned his commission before making that particular compromise and offered my own over the issue.

Subsequent to that, has been the issue of the insignia, with the Carbineers making a submission that was blatantly against the rules, and deliberately offensive. Fortunately, it was rejected by Heraldry and they are doing a rethink.

What's actually relevant to this DYK, is that it was not "The Carbineers" that the Zulu regiment fought/defeated at all. It was one small partial platoon that had been detached under British command.

This whole thing is terribly ironic. During the '80s, the 121 Battalion guys (almost 100% Zulu) were part of the so-called "Apartheid forces". They got competitive entry to 121 BN, with fierce competition and pride to have achieved it. When we amalgamated in 1994, a lot of the black guys joining the Regiment came from ex 121 guys. We had a huge bond and got on extremely well. Subsequent to that though, I would say in the last ten years, things have gotten a lot more political. BoonDock (talk) 13:57, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi BoonDock, I am keen to expand the article but we'd need something that meets the WP:Reliable Sources criteria. I had wondered why the insignia were taking so long to sort, I guess it is the same in the other regiments? With regards the number of men at Isandlwana; at the start of the war the Carbineers numbered 60 men (a further 11 joined by the end of the war in July); 29 of the men fought at Isandlwana in January, of which 22 were killed. I don't think the DYK is misrepresenting the situation, men of the two units fought on opposite sides of the battle - Dumelow (talk) 07:51, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]