Template:Did you know nominations/Meat Weed Madness

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 15:47, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

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Meat Weed Madness[edit]

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  • ... that Troma Entertainment released Meat Weed Madness after "the Battle Between the Burps and Farts" was screened at the TromaDance festival despite executive Lloyd Kaufman proclaiming in the "extras" section of the DVD for Meat Weed Madness that it was the only film in the history of the festival that was booed by everybody in attendance?

Moved to mainspace by Launchballer (talk). Self nominated at 09:40, 29 October 2013 (UTC).

  • Long enough, new enough. The hook checks out but is far too long. The length is still sufficient without those long quotes contained in the article, but I think the quotes themselves are unecessarily long. It would be better to summarise most of each quote. --Storye book (talk) 10:36, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Alt 2 is fine, but it doesn't actually look that long - how long was my one?--Launchballer 10:50, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
I think the precise number of words in the hook isn't the point here: your alt 1 is a copy-and-paste which is fine in the article, but too rambling and un-punchy for a front-page hook. On the front page you have to grab net-surfers instantly, as with an advertisement. They can read-all-about-it when they get to the article. --Storye book (talk) 11:00, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
I see. What do you want me to do with the quotes, cut them down to 40 words or less (so they don't have to be in blockquotes)?--Launchballer 11:22, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
The quotes in the article can still be long enough for blockquotes, but not so long that we start to worry whether the original web page creator will feel that he/she is being ripped off. We can quote and acknowledge/credit a small amount of cut-and-paste stuff off webpages, but there is no need to do this unecessarily, when the same material could be summarised. I think that a good rule of thumb is not to quote unless you cannot avoid it (e.g. if the particular words used by a VIP are significant) and even then to keep it as short as possible to avoid accusations about copyright. --Storye book (talk) 12:19, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
They're one paragraph from each website out of ten and thirteen - hardly a copyvio. I've cut them down nonetheless.--Launchballer 12:47, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
I think you've done the right thing - if nothing else it will protect you/WP from hassle. I am happy with it now, if we use Alt 2 or a similar-length hook.--Storye book (talk) 13:58, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Alt 2 is fine.--Launchballer 19:24, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
  • Since ALT2 was proposed by Storye book and contains some new information not in the original, it must be reviewed by someone else. I've done a bit of cleanup in the article, including a blockquote per WP:MOSQUOTE, and added italics to the bolded movie title. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:53, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
  • Alt 2 was intended to retain the same information in a much shorter format. It should not contain new information, but maybe it's unclear? Perhaps this is clearer:
  • Alt 3: ... that the previous work "the Battle Between the Burps and Farts", by the director of Meat Weed Madness, was the only film ever booed by all at the TromaDance festival?
  • . . . and thank you for cleaning up the article, Bluemoonset. I think it is fit for DYK now, if there is agreement on Alt 3.--Storye book (talk) 10:37, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
That is absolutely fine by me.--Launchballer 10:38, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
  • The new fact in both ALTs is that Burps is the movie the director made immediately before Meat Weed. Also, in a reworded hook, sometimes the phrasing is not ideal, which is why the rules say someone else should review the hook. In this case, to my eyes "booed by all" is not ideal wording, and I doubt it's true: everyone at the screening, sure, but I'll bet not everyone at the festival saw every movie. The original hook said "everyone in attendance", which is not the same thing. Finally, the "the" starting the Burps title should be capitalized: the first and last words of a title are always capitalized, even if they wouldn't be in the middle. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:39, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
You are quite right, BlueMoonset; I hadn't spotted those points. Hope it's OK now. --Storye book (talk) 16:00, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
Alt 4 is 100% my words, just some of it's been excised. Again absolutely fine, but another reviewer's take on it would be ideal.--Launchballer 17:22, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
  • Still needs an independent ALT hook reviewer. Thanks. (Note: any reply to this line will just delay the necessary review further.) BlueMoonset (talk) 22:01, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
  • Going with Alt4 which is well sourced, this article is new enough and long enough. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:38, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
I have added a link to the Battle Between the Burps and Farts to Alt 4 - any objections? I'm working on getting Aiden Dillard to DYK standard as well.--Launchballer 00:15, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
  • If you add a bold link to an approved hook, the new article needs to go through a full DYK review. So you're basically back at square one. Note also that if you intend to bold "the director" as a piped link to Alden Dillard, it too will need to be reviewed. For now:
  • Full review needed for The Battle Between the Burps and Farts. The hook facts pertaining to that movie definitely need to be sourced in the new article. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:49, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
  • The sources in The Battle Between the Burps and Farts aren't sufficient to establish notability – passing mentions in reviews of Meat Weed Madness, and another mention in an interview with Dillard. If this film is notable (seems unlikely, to be honest), better sources are needed. And the fact that the film's NY premiere incited fights among the audience needs a better source than Dillard's website (and even that source is misrepresented – "several fist fights" have become "a large number of fights"). The first sentence of the "Screening" section has been copied almost verbatim from the source, except that a typo has completely altered its meaning (the film didn't screen "simultaneously at" every festival in Park City, but "simultaneously as"; that is, TromaDance was held at the same time as the other festivals, a fact which is pretty irrelevant to this article).
As for Meat Weed Madness, the language is slightly too informal for my liking – "a couple of years beforehand", "just shy of South America", "a bit later on", and especially "runs like hell". The phrase "assaulted by a bumpkin in a shark car" is taken directly from the source, and is also nonsensical; unless you can explain in the article what a shark car is, I'd leave that bit out. Ideally, I'd like to see more sources for this article as well; the three websites used as references seem to be the kind of sites that will review any film they can get their hands on; if that's the case, this film's notability may also be in question. DoctorKubla (talk) 19:29, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
The Battle Between the Burps and Farts is notable for being the only film at the TromaDance festival to be universally booed - what makes you say that that is in question? I've fixed the misrepresented source, but I'm confused by your 'simultaneously at' query. I have no idea what you mean.
I have fixed all the errors with Meat Weed Madness. There are four sources, and that they all have articles tell me that they are noted review sites.--Launchballer 21:04, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
The article says "It screened simultaneously at the Sundance Film Festival and all of the other Blah-Dance festivals occurring in Park City, Utah". This is saying that the film was shown at every film festival in Park City, which isn't true. The source says "It screened simultaneously as the Sundance Film Festival and all of the other Blah-Dance festivals occurred in Park City, Utah". This means that the film was shown at one festival, TromaDance, which took place at the same time as several other festivals. This is a very minor problem, and I only really mentioned it as an aside; my main concern is the copyvio. And I wouldn't have thought I'd have to tell you this, but notability isn't synonymous with importance or significance; it simply means "significant coverage in reliable sources". DoctorKubla (talk) 08:13, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
I've fixed the misinterpreted source and the copyvio has already been amended.--Launchballer 09:46, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
The article's still inaccurate; the film was never shown at Sundance, just TromaDance, and neither of these festivals were held in New York. You still haven't addressed my notability concerns. DoctorKubla (talk) 12:16, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
I've taken out the fact that it was shown at Sundance; it was clearly shown in New York City, I don't see why Dillard would lie on his website. I don't think I can address the notability concerns.--Launchballer 12:48, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Then you should withdraw the nomination. DYK requires articles to conform to core WP policies, including notability. DoctorKubla (talk) 14:20, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
If this got sent to AfD it would probably be kept judging by the fact that there's a DVD Verdict and DVD Talk review. Taylor Trescott - my talk + my edits 19:56, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I'm only asking Launchballer to withdraw The Battle Between the Burps and Farts, since he seems to agree it's not notable. Meat Weed Madness I'm still not sure about, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. So all Launchballer needs to do is unbold the Burps and Farts link in his proposed hook. DoctorKubla (talk) 08:36, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
I've unbolded it. I have also added an unbolded link to Aiden Dillard.--Launchballer 10:41, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
On second thought (sorry), I think the hook should be refactored slightly to shift the focus more on to Meat Weed Madness, since that's the article we want to highlight. I think you could achieve this by removing the title of the Burps and Farts film, and just linking to it with the words "a previous work"; you'd then have room to mention Aiden Dillard by name. (You should propose this as an ALT5, rather than further amending ALT4.) DoctorKubla (talk) 15:49, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
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