Talk:Obsessive–compulsive personality disorder/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Hyphens

The name of the condition, "obsessive compulsive personality disorder," does not include a hyphen. I have (rather obsessively) removed instances of the hyphen where they occasionally appeared in the main text, but I do not know how to remove the hyphen from the topic title above.

If someone knows how to do this, please do.

That might involve migrating to a new page and replacing the old one with a redirect.

Are you sure? I don't have a physical copy of the DSM-IV-TR, but all the online sources with the diagnostic criteria have a hyphen in the name.--NeantHumain 00:35, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
The DSM-IV-TR has the hyphen. Just grabbed my wife's copy of Quick Reference to the Diagnostic Criteria from DSM-IV-TR and it's on p.296: "301.4 Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder." ⇒ BRossow T/C 01:57, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
It's hyphenated in my O'Donohue et al. 2007 text as well. Aldaros23

Self-help inappropriate?

The self-help section seems completely inappropriate for an encylopedia entry. 207.172.96.134 17:03, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Treatment information

treatment information from www.mentalhealth.com/rx/p23-pe10.html

im not entirely sure about how to put this in, and as i am only 16, i think it 'best' for an elder to arrange/fit this in.

on another note, i would like to see this page expand, and i would like more examples, as i feel i have obsessive compulsive personality disorder. i notice alot of signs, sometimes with similar results to examples given in OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) although these tasks, such as checking that a door is locked, do not cause me any pain or such, i do worry sometimes, but not overly.

Medical Treatment

Basic Principles

When they are confronted with physical illness, individuals with compulsive personality disorder are particularly troubled by the sense of loss of control over bodily functions. There may be exaggerated worries about submitting to authority figures.

The patient will attempt to ward off these anxieties by redoubling efforts at composure and presenting a precisely detailed, orderly account of progression of symptoms in an emotionally detached manner.

A scientific approach on the part of the physician - as conveyed in thorough history taking and careful diagnostic workups - is reassuring and fosters the trust necessary for an effective therapeutic alliance. A well-articulated account of the disease process and treatment alternatives reassures the patient that someone is in control and that the doctor respects the patient's capacities to participate as an informed partner in the healing process. The reassurance provides a foundation upon which the patient can begin to reconstruct a sense of order in everyday life.

Patients with compulsive personality disorder are not reassured by vague impressionistic overviews of their prognosis. Patients feel most comfortable when the doctor provides documentary evidence in the form of specific laboratory test results, e.g., electrocardiograms or x-rays, or cites actual reports from the literature when presenting statistics about risk factors.

The healing process may be promoted by harnessing patients' innate thoroughness through encouraging intake and output and weight fluctuations and control of graduated exercise programs. When feasible, patients can take over management of more routine procedures, such as changing their surgical dressings. Meticulous adherence to treatment protocols will restore morale as patients regain a sense of mastery and dignity in taking charge of their lives. The physician must remain alert to the possibility that compulsive patients may wish to carry this self-healing process too far and cross the boundaries of their competence while stubbornly resisting the expertise offered by the health care team. The use of medications in these patients is generally not productive.

Hospitalization

Occasionally, when obsessional rituals and anxiety reach an intolerable intensity, it may be necessary to hospitalize the patient until the shelter of an institution and the removal from external environmental stresses bring about a lessening of the symptoms to a more tolerable level.

Antidepressant Drugs

During the past decade, sporadic case reports have described dramatic improvement in severely disabled obsessive-compulsive patients after the administration of tricyclic antidepressant or monoamine oxidase inhibitors.

Psychosocial Treatment

Basic Principles

Patients with Compulsive Personality Disorder who seek treatment usually do so because of symptoms which reflect, or are similar to, Axis I diagnoses of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, Affective Disorder, or occasionally Paranoia.

Individual Psychotherapy

Long-term psychotherapy is the treatment of choice. The focus must be on feelings rather than thoughts and would emphasize the clarification of the defenses of isolation of affect (intellectualized distancing from emotions) and displacement of hostility.

The treatment of the personality disorder itself should be psychotherapeutic, and may be intensive in nature if the patient is sufficiently motivated and tolerant. Needs to control and related fears of destructive impulses are important issues at all levels of treatment, from simple scheduling requests, to intellectualization and rationalization, to other resistances to fantasy and free association. Many of the characteristics which lead to a successful life for such a patient, and which appear to the inexperienced therapist to make for an excellent therapeutic candidate, are actually symptoms which can become serious impediments to psychotherapy.

The therapist must avoid competing with the patient and should be able to tolerate the patient's verbal attacks, retaining a therapeutic posture rather than allowing the session to deteriorate into an intellectual discussion or otherwise nonproductive interchange. Those patients with Compulsive Personality Disorder who show signs of deteriorating toward severe rituals or paranoia under stress should probably not be treated so intensively.

As is always the case in choosing patients for insight psychotherapy, the criteria for selection depend primarily on factors other than symptoms: (1) the prominence of situational precipitating events, (2) the capacity to relate to the physician, (3) evidence of good relationships with others, (4) stable work patterns, (5) the capacity to tolerate anxiety and depression, (6) the ability to express emotion, (7) intelligence, (8) the ability to be introspective, (9) flexibility in thinking and behavior, and, perhaps most important of all, (10) motivation for change.

Supportive psychotherapy undoubtedly has its place in the psychiatrist's armamentarium, especially for that group of obsessive-compulsive patients who, despite symptoms of varying degrees of severity, are able to work and make a social adjustment. The continuous and regular contact with an interested, sympathetic, and encouraging professional may make it possible for patients to continue to function by virtue of this help, without which they would become completely incapacitated by their symptoms.

Group and behavioral therapy occasionally offer certain advantages. In both contexts, it is easy to interrupt the patient in the midst of his maladaptive interactions or explanations. Preventing the completion of his habitual behavior raises his anxiety and leaves him susceptible to new learning. The patient can also experience direct rewards for change, something less often possible in individual psychotherapies.

Desensitization techniques may be helpful to certain patients in removing or reducing the severity of symptoms. As in the phobias, a hierarchy of increasingly anxiety-provoking stimuli is constructed, and the patient is systematically exposed to these stimuli step by step, either in imagination or in vivo, in combination with a variety of measures applied to induce a countering relaxation.

In flooding, the patient is required to face the most anxiety-provoking stimuli and to experience the full tide of anxious affect thus aroused. Flooding is often combined with response prevention, called apotrepic therapy by some clinicians; the patients are not only confronted with the frightening stimulus, but are restrained from carrying out their defensive-compulsive actions. Modeling may be added to response prevention; that is, patients are accompanied by the therapist, who remains calm and inactive during the exposure to the arousing stimulus and who provides patients with a model after which to pattern their own behavior.

Therapeutic techniques have also been devised to control obsessional thoughts. Saturation requires patients actively to concentrate on the obsessional thought without letting their minds wander. Clinical experience shows that, after 10 to 15 minutes of such concentration, the obsessional thought loses some of its attention-compelling energy, and patients are unable to keep their minds focused on it. Thought-stopping involves the therapist in a vigorous interaction with the patient. As the patient broods on the obsessional thought, the therapist suddenly yells "Stop!" or applies an aversive stimulus to counteract the patient's obsessional preoccupation.

Family Therapy

Any psychotherapeutic endeavors must include attention to family members through the provision of emotional support, reassurance, explanation, and advice on how to manage and respond to the patient.

Isn't "Anal Retentive" one of the fruedian classifications, being [bodily orifice]+{retentive|expressive} ? Pmurray bigpond.com 03:17, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Help For Adult Children of OCPD

Any helping resources for adult children of parents with OCPD who may have lifelong emotional and behavioral legacies due to growing up in an OCPD controlled household?

161.98.13.100 18:52, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

See also anal retentive?

While "anal retentive" may be descriptive of a number of individuals with OCPD, so is "bipedal." There isn't room for all adjective phrases which may be related to OCPD.

Unlike bipedal, which applies to basically all human beings, anal retentive has a particular relationship with obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. Obsessive-compulsive disorder was one of the character fixations under the old Freudian scheme: the anal character. See, for example, This website describes it as ,"a person whose main energy in life is directed towards having, saving and hoarding money and material things as well as feelings, gestures, words, energy. It is the character of the stingy individual and is usually connected with such other traits as orderliness, punctuality, stubbornness, each to a more than ordinary degree."
Basically anal retentive or anal character is an older name for obsessive-compulsive personality disorder.--NeantHumain 21:25, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
That's a bit of an oversimplification. It is more that they are related concepts described in different models of personality. 152.91.9.219 (talk) 01:27, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Right on target. Fritz Riemann, a brilliant psychoanalyst defines such personality as "compulsive". Anal retentive and OCPD fit very well into the more generic "compulsive" personality. Compulsiveness is a state of mind such that time seems to flow too fast. When the compulsive person "looks" at their "internal" clock, it turns faster, compared to the clock of a non-compulsive person. This is the reason why compulsiveness is also called "fear of change" or "time dyslexia" or "short time horizons", "focusing on the present moment", etc. Proper feeling of time flow is quite important. As the compulsive person feels time to flow too fast, their behaviors adapt to it. The particular behaviors depend on the individual person, but the cause is the same: Trying to "catch up" with the fast time flow. According to Fritz Riemann, common compulsive behaviors are: (*)Hoarding - any of the: time, work, data, resources, money, books, items, animals, achievement, etc. Where applicable, these are catalogued and backed up by multiple copies. (*)Order: schedules, meticulousness, pedantry, dogmatism, formalism, doctrineerism, rigidity, control (*)Purity: strict dieting, cleanliness, mistrust in doctors, racial hate (*)Repetition: due to fear of errors (*)Tending towards the past: mistrust in new ideas and technology, retro-style life, etc (*)Sobriety: non-emotional, non-affectionate, never allows self certain emotions (e.g. crying) (It cannot all be listed here.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.100.16.158 (talk) 18:47, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Just trash it

Oh, just trash the article and start over again! (OCPD victim) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.61.163.114 (talk) 00:12, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree, nearly all of this reads to me like original research. I don't think improving it is expanding it, but deleting the unverifiable claims and adding citations to back up the article. 62.30.249.131 (talk) 16:43, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
You may be missing the irony there:)Wcp07 (talk) 08:53, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
This made me laugh so hard. I spend most of my time doing exactly that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.146.9.34 (talk) 19:23, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Hatnote added

I am not an expert in this area, but it appears to me that as both OCD and OCPD have WP articles, it is helpful to add the hatnotes to clarify this and lead from each to the other. PamD (talk) 07:30, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining my mom to me. I just wanted to say that people with OCPD are much to be admired in their organizational skills, and other good obsesiveness. But these things do not lead to creative thinking at all. So I would object at pianist being better than others in "normal" spectrum. You strive for repetition and perfection, not on creativity and feeling the music. I think that people with this disorder should not flatter themselves on creative thinking. Just my humble opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.116.157.178 (talk) 21:00, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Same thing as Obsessive-compulsive style?

In 1994 my therapist said I had Obsessive Compulsive Style. When she did, she handed me a photocopy of the chapter on OCS in David Shapiro's book Neurotic Styles, which I see is referenced from this article.

Yesterday I told my new psychiatrist that I had OCS, and he said that it was OCPD. That's what led to me finding this article - but the description from this article doesn't sound as much like me as the chapter from Shapiro's book does.

I told another therapist that "OCS makes you want to be a computer programmer". Besides being technically-inclined, I have quite an eye for fine detail that makes me one of the best low-level debuggers in the industry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MichaelCrawford (talk • contribs) 07:47, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I should add that I am by no means orderly nor punctual - I am legendary for both my slovenliness and my lateness! However, a professor once asked me "Do you reserve all your neatness for your code?" and yes, in fact, the software I write is meticulously neat - but that's about the only thing that is.

Neither do I hoard money; I am now in a smoking crater of debt as a result of my clueless mismanagement of money during the time I was self-employed. MichaelCrawford (talk) 08:00, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Michael, your therapist may have just been wrong because the way you describe yourself doesn't match the obsessive-compulsive personality style much except for your coding style. Of the people with likely obsessive-compulsive personality styles I've met, most have been exceedingly neat and well dressed (often with a preference for plaid or formal attire). They also have a thing for work productivity, conventional measures of success, and well, conventionality overall (meaning they're exceedingly boring people). I've seen many of your posts on Slashdot, Kuro5hin, and elsewhere; and perhaps your schizoaffective disorder complicates the diagnostic picture.--NeantHumain (talk) 02:16, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

/* Symptoms */ Consolodated 2 citations that were referencing the same resource and provided reference information

However, reading the article referenced, there is very little information regarding OCPD. The only relevant info I could find in the entire article was a casual mention of money hoarding being a diagnostic characteristic of OCPD. From the article:

Surprisingly, there is no explicit definition of compulsive hoarding. It is coded in DSM-IV-TRTM 2000 as one of the eight symptoms of obsessive compulsive personality disorder (OCPD). However, compulsive hording is most widely recognised as a symptom factor of obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD), although this view is disputed.
http://www.racgp.org.au/afp/200804/200804jeffreys.pdf

IMHO, this is no better a reference than the actual DSM-IV-TR. Gogogadgetearl (talk) 18:39, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Comparison to OCD

I thought I'd look for some feedback. Firstly, anxiety in general, scrupulosity, mysophobia/germaphobia and compulsive hoarding can be symptoms of both OCPD and OCD, while intrusive thoughts and impulses are in the diagnostic criteria for the ICD's OCPD but are generally viewed as the core symptoms of OCD. Anorexia nervosa is also connected to both OCPD and OCD (PMID 12113200). Some other reviews worth looking into are:

  • PMID 17545957 (links to the free full text)
  • PMID 16402751
  • PMID 1461797 (perhaps more relevant to OCD)
  • PMID 17514081 (more relevant to OCD, but it also links to the free full text, which includes a decent section devoted to the comparison of OCD to OCPD)

MichaelExe (talk) 22:24, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for contribution. I will try to spare some time to look into this. --Penbat (talk) 22:32, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
A related issue is that ICD's Anankastic is within OCPD but ICD Dissocial and Emotionally Unstable have their own articles rather than being in Antisocial and Borderline respectively. It really needs to be consistent one way or another. --Penbat (talk) 23:04, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
I'd go with merging. Searching for borderline and antisocial personality disorders yields more results in PubMed, too, so the focus should be placed on these. MichaelExe (talk) 23:27, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Reference 3 Jeffreys in section: Hoarding

Wanted to draw attention to the fact the article by Jeffreys does not mention hoarding money, or perceived "stinginess" of OCPD patients. <Jefferys, Don (2008). "Pathological hoarding". Australian Family Physician 37 (4): 237–241.>[1] Should delete this reference.Kellabee (talk) 12:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Sourcing

This is getting quite silly; please stop removing tags.[2] If this is true, then this text should be easily sourced to peer-reviewed sources, conforming to WP:MEDRS. If they're not, then we need to know why not. I can locate no reviews in pubmed that discuss Millon, but this is not at all promising. Winberg Nodal M, Vilalta Suárez RJ (2009). "[Assessment of personality disorders with the Millon Clinical Multiaxial Inventory (MCMI-II) in a forensic sample]" (PDF). Psicothema (in Spanish; Castilian). 21 (4): 610–4. PMID 19861107. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: unrecognized language (link) Also, the POV tag was there before I edited, and appears to be justified based on the lack of sourcing for the Millon text, so please restore it or resolve the sourcing. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:44, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

I dug deeper and found some reviews: of the two most recent, one is promising, one is not. The more promising review is written by Millon, so is not an independent source, and the Spanish-language source above, although not a review, is not favorable. The text needs to be balanced and written to peer-reviewed rather than self-published sources.
  • Grove WM, Vrieze SI (2009). "An exploration of the base rate scores of the Millon Clinical Multiaxial Inventory-III". Psychol Assess. 21 (1): 57–67. doi:10.1037/a0014471. PMID 19290766. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Strack S, Millon T (2007). "Contributions to the dimensional assessment of personality disorders using Millon's model and the Millon Clinical Multiaxial Inventory (MCMI9-III)". J Pers Assess. 89 (1): 56–69. doi:10.1080/00223890701357217. PMID 17604534. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
In the future, please do this work before removing valid tags. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:08, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Diagnosis/ obsessions

Hi there, the second paragraph in the section Diagnosis, subheading Obsessions is unclear. Can you please make it clearer with either re-wording, paraphrasing, or extending explanation? And, include citation? Thank you! Hydra Rain (talk) 23:21, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Good point, and I have been looking for a good source for the difference between OPCD and Asperger's, but I cannot find it. Lova Falk talk 10:53, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Clutter and bloat

However, the usefulness of all but three of the criteria has been challenged in a research study[16].

"A" research study does not represent academic consensus. This is not notable per se, and it seems to me that it was inserted by someone who is trying to advertise the study. To persuade, rather than to inform. Wikipedia is not the venue for that.

This article contains a lot of irrelevant information, probably all inserted by the same person. Most of it is inappropriate in some way. --70.131.114.232 (talk) 21:59, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. This article has too many categories and sub-categories. Borderline unreadable. Fluous (talk) 22:43, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

MOS problems

Hey. The section on OCPD vs. OCD needs to be rewritten to comply with the Manual of Style for Medicine-related articles. Discusses a study instead instead of just the facts found in the conclusion.Fluous (talk) 23:18, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Fluous, and thank you for your comment! I know that you are new, but please feel free to be bold and clean up this section! Lova Falk talk 09:54, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, will do! Fluous (talk) 18:54, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Treatment

The section about treatment talks mainly about OCD rather than OCD. It is factually inaccurate, as well as having a bunch of other issues. It needs rewriting by someone who knows the differences in the disorder and in treatment of them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.103.85.75 (talk) 07:08, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Making it easier for people to accept they have OCPD

One of the more problematic things about OCPD seems to be demand resistance, causing us to have great difficulty believing we have OCPD. I have a feeling there are a lot of people who wonder if they might have OCPD, google it, end up here, read the intro, and think "Ah, I see people with OCPD are terrible people, clearly I am not a terrible person, so obviously I do not have OCPD." So I think this article is actively making it harder for people with OCPD to accept it, and therefore negatively impacting their lives, and the lives of those close to them. I'm certainly uncomfortable with the idea of sugar coating OCPD, but I think everyone, those with OCPD, and those who are close to people with OCPD, will be better off if more of us can believe we have it. So I suggest making it sound more pleasant in the intro, and trying to get in more stuff that will sound familiar to people with OCPD before going into the negatives - being controlling, inflexible, inefficient, etc.. When I lead with my example of the years it took me to buy a new toilet seat, due to difficulty figuring out which one was most perfect, I seem to have no problem getting people to consider the possibility they have OCPD. I wish I could just get everyone who thinks they might have OCPD to read the book Too Perfect, but instead they're going to end up here. So what do you think? Is this an appropriate way to try to make lots of people's lives better? —Darxus (talk) 20:02, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

I agree, because most people "with OCPD" do not have OCPD; they have one or more elements of OCP and in varying degrees. 78.147.52.248 (talk) 21:27, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

OCP - Obsessive-compulsive personality without a disorder

Where's the article on the personality proper? This would be more appropriate for the vast majority of people who seek information on obsessiveness and compulsiveness behaviours. Most people with OC traits, style or personality do not have a disorder. Some of these traits may be positive, some may be negative. In the latter case the person may well have insight, which the article claims (somewhat erroneously, I believe) is lacking in those with OCPD. 78.147.52.248 (talk) 21:27, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Superclassification

I'm not a doctor by any means, but this sounds like an autism spectrum disorder by the definition. Should there be a link to this in there? Sim (talk) 04:27, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I have OCPD and that has NOTHING to do with autistic spectrum disorder. Please try to read the article slowly....if you encounter a person having OCPD, s/he might seem to you to be too rigid (not always). S/he might seem too obssessed with matters of little relevance. For example, when I was studying chemistry, I had decided (until I got over it) that all chemicals regardless should be referred to by their IUPAC name. So I would want people to call caffeine as 1,3,7-trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6(3H,7H)-dione...and I still seem to get some pleasure in using the IUPAC name.....one of the differences between OCPD and OCD is that my OCPD is a seamless part of my personality. All that I am good at in life stems in part from OCPD....and so does the bad. 75.111.198.59 (talk) 09:06, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
You seam to be describing Asperger symptoms: Abnormalities include literal interpretations, use of metaphor meaningful only to the speaker, unusually pedantic, formal or idiosyncratic speech. You say OCPD is not autism, but Asperger's is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.12.184.253 (talk) 18:08, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
OCPD is considered to be autistic spectrum now. I agree with the proposal to add a mention of it. 2.103.85.75 (talk) 07:07, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
OCPD is not part of the autistic spectrum. OCPD is a cluster C personality disorder; autism is a hereditary developmental disorder. They have some similarities, such as formal speech and rigid thinking and behaviour. However, autistic people have impaired social and communication skills. OCPD people do not have such impairments. The article should say whether or not they are comorbid. Jim Michael (talk) 10:40, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Neurosurgery for OCPD!?

I deleted the sections about medication and surgery because as far as I know this information was misleading at best. To the best of my knowledge, medication is generally not prescribed or indicated, and I am quite confident there is no neurosurgerical procedure believed to benefit those with OCPD or other personality disorders.

No one operates for a personality disorder. By definition they are behavior problems not biological. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.22.19.194 (talk) 21:20, 31 January 2007 (UTC).
Medications may be indicated to manage acute psychological conditions arising from the underlying OCPD. These include associated depression, obsessive compulsive trends and sleep disturbances from acute stress. Surgery is not indicated. As this is a spectrum disorder there is no 'standard' treatment. Hope this helps - Bryce. --137.219.252.99 (talk) 02:19, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
No personality disorder can be treated with surgery. Jim Michael (talk) 10:40, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

"Jobsworth"

I have twice removed unsubstantiated links between the articles on obsessive–compulsive personality disorder and "jobsworth" in the "see also" sections of both articles. No connection between these subjects is explained in the text of either article, and putting in unexplained and tenuous "see also" links between articles on such different subjects is very bad practice.

It looks a lot like the perceived connection is one editor's interpretation rather than anything encyclopedic. "They are both obsessed with rules" seems to be the only rationale supplied, & a very weak one at that since this statement could cover any number of disorders and character traits. However, jobsworths are defined as using rules vindictively or obstructively and "seemingly delighting in acting in an obstructive or unhelpful manner". OCPD is a very specific condition characterised by adherence to rules for their own sake and because of the reassurance they provide to the OCPD sufferer, rather than to deliberately inhibit others.

Associating a common negative stereotype with a single specific personality disorder is armchair psychology of the very worst sort. ωεαşεζǫįδ 00:56, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Did you not do what i suggested and view the DSM criteria for OCPD (see http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/o-cpd.htm) - reference number 12 ? The DSM definition is critical for understanding the attributes of OCPD. The DSM definition was previously in the body of text in its entirety and it fully deserves to be. The only reason it isnt is that there are possible copyright issues reproducing it in Wikipedia. --Penbat (talk) 09:43, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Clearly some jobsworths act in the way they do as a result of OCPD - but I suggest that they are in the minority and thus the link is so tenuous that is should continue to be omitted. S a g a C i t y (talk) 12:08, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Lots of behaviors could be attributed by laypersons to OCPD; unless we have a medical reliable source, it should be removed. If we have a medical reliable source, it should be cited and added to the text. (Milton is still in the article for no good reason that I can determine, btw-- this article needs to hold to MEDRS standards.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:04, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Jobsworths are likely to have passive-aggressive personality disorder, not OCPD. Jobsworths are deliberately obstructive and unhelpful, often falsely claiming that they'd love to help, but they're not allowed to. They deliberately misapply rules in order to avoid doing a good job. In comparison, OCPD people are typically workaholic perfectionists - they don't try to obstruct or avoid doing their duty. Jim Michael (talk) 10:40, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Questions about:

Q: It seems there may be a correlation between musical talent and either OCD or OCPD. Small things such as always having the volume on the stereo on an even number, walking with an even number of steps per sidewalk square, leaving your locker combination on zero, double-checking things like car doors, etc. Does anyone have any links where I may find some information about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.32.45.62 (talk) 04:25, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I have played piano for years and the person's statement from higher up on this discussion page about "everything that I am good at stems in part from my OCPD", well I feel now strongly also that musical talent would sharply benefit from OCPD. Imagine if you start a song over and get mad at yourself if you make a mistake and you angrily strive to play a song perfectly and you feel stress/anxiety if you make a single mistake. I have only learned one song on piano and can't learn another until I have the first one absolutely perfect (and yeah, imagine my dilemna--trying to learn a song perfect as a professional pianist when I'm just a beginner!). I've played for 6 years and in my own musical compositions, I spend 99% of my efforts trying to methodically bring the "least perfect" parts of a song up to par with the other parts, and when I bring some above par, then I have to bring all the other parts up. I will try and find some sources of pianists who have OCPD and find research links discussing if it gives them an edge over pianists who aren't controlled by the anxiety response common to us. 74.5.237.2 (talk) 14:21, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm a bit of a perfectionist myself, as well as an amateur pianist, and I might spend so much time perfecting the beginning of a song that I'll lose interest in completing the song (often because it seems too difficult). There are two sides to OCPD; it can motivate to perfect, or discourage your endeavours (or push you into procrastination). The latter is often my case, because I'm a pessimist. 24.109.35.25 (talk) 19:53, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Those "small things" are habits that are linked to Obsessive-compulsive disorder, not so much OCPD. 24.109.35.25 (talk) 19:53, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
The things in the first comment are indicative of OCD, not OCPD. The second comment suggests OCPD. Jim Michael (talk) 10:45, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Atheist propaganda rhethoric

I found that one of Millton's subtypes of compulsive disorders has been "fattened" with atheistic propaganda rethoric. Namely that "fundamentalists can be found virtually in any institution, large or small" and that "Over the course of history, and even in current politics, they have been an influential force in stirring national fervor".

I personally can't recall any u.s. politician or Romanian politician, honoring any national or "right hand path" religious dogma. Furthermore, officially, the American society is secular. This should have been an article about psichology, sterile of any conspiracy theory rethoric.

I am proposing the deletion of the exccess words, since it can be clearly seen as an addition with no coverage from the two sources cited in this pharagraf.

---

Millon's subtypes Theodore Millon identified five subtypes of compulsive.[1][2] Any individual compulsive may exhibit none or one of the following:

  • conscientious compulsive - including dependent features
  • puritanical compulsive - including paranoid features.

[proposed for delition] The compulsive experiences an extreme conflict between obedience and defiance at one level or another. These individuals often seek the armour of "God's righteousness"[page needed] to purify, transform and contain them. Their hostility is likely to be vented through identification of a common enemy or seeking to scapegoat the weak.[page needed] Puritanicals naturally gravitate towards radical fundamentalism but they are not limited to religious dogma. Over the course of history, and even in current politics, they have been an influential force in stirring nationalistic fervor.[page needed] They can be found virtually in any institution, large or small.[page needed] [/proposed for delition]

WP:MEDRS Andrea Carter (at your service | my good deeds) 09:06, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Treatment

Treatment section on OCPD has a large amount of irrelevant material on OCD. There is already enough confusion between the diagnoses, suggest that pharmacology info on OCD be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.179.233.37 (talk) 20:24, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Associated Conditions/Co-morbidity

I personally believe that the associated conditions sub-section of "signs and symptoms" needs to be moved into its own section labelled "co-morbidity", as the section does not discuss the signs and symptoms of OCPD, but rather mostly goes on about the co-morbidity between OCPD, OCD, eating disorders, and depression. The sub-section is also longer than the rest of the section combined. I am going to make the change, and if someone has objections, please voice them in this talk page.--Gaming User (talk) 15:48, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Diagnostic criteria

I have also removed the DSM-V and ICD-10 criteria as the licences for each are incompatible with the Wikipedia creative commons licence, especially the DSM, and therefore would violate copyright.--Gaming User (talk) 17:12, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Recent reviews

That's a good enough start for a rewrite, and I haven't even checked books. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:47, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Extensive revisions

I see extensive revisions made to the article by Gaming User. I'll contact WP:Med for review. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 21:21, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for doing so. Gaming User (talk) 11:37, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
This article is rather a mess, making extensive use of primary sources, and dated ones at that. Please use the template at the top of this page to locate secondary reviews, of which they are plenty. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:38, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
Will be doing so as soon as possible.Gaming User (talk) 16:13, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
I have never encountered an article built with such wanton disregard for WP:MEDRS; the article is built almost entirely on primary and very dated sources, with scant use of secondary reviews, and it is likely that a good deal of the article is WP:UNDUE to blatantly inaccurate. My suggestion is to get your hands on the latest and highest quality secondary reviews, and plan on a top-to-bottom rewrite, because there is very little salvageable here. I have had to do top-to-bottom rewrites before, and it takes a good two Ntato three months of steady work. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:13, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
I am quite grateful for the time and effort spent by you to review the sources in the article. I will be spending the next few days researching the secondary sources you have provided and reading up some books I was able to find. Thank you for the help. Gaming User (talk) 20:40, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
Gaming User, perhaps having a look at Tourette syndrome, a Featured article, will give you some leads-- you have a lot of work ahead of you, but it's doable! I think with a trip to a library-- and the list of secondary reviews below-- you will be able to fill out most of the article. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:30, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
Reactive attachment disorder may also help, except the person who wrote it has been gone since forever, and I am not sure the article has been maintained to standards. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:21, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2019 and 26 April 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): LaShaeDavis. Peer reviewers: Dhrunil9.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:32, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

OCPD Cause

The cause section of this article could be improved upon by adding more sources that support the theory of OCPD being genetically inherited. Currently, the article cites one source but doesn't go into depth over what research supports its theory.BradenNolfo (talk) 18:45, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Personality Theory

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2023 and 12 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ForeverExtraordinary (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Jeppi2023.

— Assignment last updated by Isbenn (talk) 07:34, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: EDT 251 - Research Skills and Strategies

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 March 2023 and 13 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Makaylaryan14 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Makaylaryan14 (talk) 18:18, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

  1. ^ Millon, Theodore, Personality Disorders in Modern Life, 2004
  2. ^ Millon, Theodore - Personality Subtypes
  3. ^ Fromm, E Man For Himself, 1947
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