Talk:Naporitan

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Neapolitan[edit]

What, if any, is the difference between this and Neapolitan sauce? Jpatokal (talk) 11:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This dish is quite different from the Naepolitan sauce. The dish was inspired from US ration spaghetti and the chef named it 'Naporitan', because it was a city popular for spaghetti. This is not Italian Style spaghetti, but rather Americanized spaghetti that has been adapted for Japaneses' taste.Stevefis (talk) 02:13, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The "Neapolitan sauce" article states that it is "the collective name given (outside Italy, particularly in the U.S.) to various basic tomato-based sauces derived from Italian cuisine, often served over pasta and then sprinkled with grated Parmesan cheese." Surely Japanese Neapolitan sauce also fits the bill? Jpatokal (talk) 04:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Naporitan is different that it is originated from Americanized Spaghetti, not Italian Spaghetti. If you use your argument, then Marinara sauce would also be considered as Neapolitan sauce, but they are completely different sauce. Both of them are tomato-based (So does Naporitan), but they are completely different kinds of sauce. Besides, the original Naporitan was made using Tomato Ketchup, but the Neapolitan sauce are not made with ketchup. And Naporitan doesn't have the various herbs that Neapolitan sauce has. It is instead flavored with bacon, which is another proof that it is American influencedStevefis (talk) 10:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I remain unconvinced. Sure, it's localized, but it's still a "basic tomato-based sauce derived from Italian cuisine" -- the Japanese article notes that, while the US army version was ketchup only, the original Japanese chef used tomato puree from day one.
I think we should do the same as the Japanese WP does now: merge them into the same article, and give "Naporitan" a subsection. Jpatokal (talk) 13:03, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The definition for "Neapolitan sauce" is ridiculously vague: "the collective name given (outside Italy, particularly in the U.S.) to various basic tomato-based sauces derived from Italian cuisine, often served over pasta and then sprinkled with grated Parmesan cheese." By definition, just about any tomato/spaghetti sauce could be referred to as a "Neapolitan sauce". I would be more inclined to leave Naporitan alone (for now, at least) and focus on cleaning up Neapolitan sauce so that it is distinguished from other kinds of tomato sauce. CES (talk) 18:43, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There are different kinds of Tomato sauces such Marinara and Marinara is definitely not 'Neopolitan' sauce. Stevefis (talk) 01:54, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What should we believe, and why?[edit]

Stevefis, your argument above seems to be close to something that the article says: the dish was created by the general chef of the New Grand Hotel in Yokohama, when he was inspired by one of the military ration of GHQ, which was a spaghetti mixed with tomato ketchup. But the article precedes this with It is speculated that. Unless I misunderstand, the premiss for your argument is mere speculation.

Let's put aside for a moment the important question of whether mere speculation should appear in an article. The article also flatly asserts as fact: Naporitan is not originated in Italy, but instead in Yokohama, Japan. It gives no source for this assertion. The article as a whole does cite a book, and it's clear from what the author writes in the amazon.co.jp page for it that this is close to what she (he?) writes.

Neither this book or its bunkobon version is stocked by Tokyo metropolitan library, which does stock books about (psychological) depression by somebody with the same name. This is odd, as the library stocks a vast amount. I wonder why it doesn't stock the book.

Is Ueno a credible authority, and if so, how? What sources does Ueno cite for her (his) assertions about Naporitan? What distinction does Ueno draw between what she (he) states as fact and what she (he) reports as speculation? Can you not cite any indisputably authoritative sources on Japanese yōshoku?ナポリタン Once we know what the verifiable facts are, then we'll know whether or not to merge this article. -- Hoary (talk) 07:46, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your Point. As you know about Wikipedia, one man does not contribute to the article. I've created this page with basic information and some other people happen to add more information to it. Please look at the History section of the article. There is a Japanese version of this page Naporitan and I need to add more informations from this page. My Japanese is only at intermediate level, so it will take some time. Let's postpone the merging the article to the Neapolitan Sauce Article, because even that article is far from complete. If we merge it now, there will be more informations about the Naporitan spaghetti than the Neapolitan Sauce. Thanks for your opinion on this aritcle :) Stevefis (talk) 23:00, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article still speaks in two very different tones, one implying that it is effectively a food myth, the other that it was definitely created in Yokohama. It looks like this was never addressed. Should I change the first part of the article to match the tone of the next part?2600:1700:6250:89A0:541A:7BB1:147B:CE49 (talk) 22:59, 24 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I was shown this dish by a Japanese mother. I am Italian, from Naples. This dish is not based on Neapolitan sauce, which is raw San Marzano Tomatoes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marzano_tomato) pressed with a device (passata http://www.understandingitaly.com/living-content/passata.html) that is then boiled in a pot, adding spices. This uses heinz ketchup and sometimes I've seen it with Frankfurt sausages, which are not very much Italian either. :O 87.222.119.28 (talk) 16:42, 4 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think the comment from 87.222.119.28 above says it best. Whether it can be confirmed that the dish was first made in Yokohama or not is of little consequence. For anyone who has lived in Japan will attest to, it is a uniquely Japanese dish, likely inspired, as the article suggests by US army rations similar to Chef_Boyardee canned spaghetti. It is a signature dish found in many Japanese family restaurants (certainly not only Japanese Italian restaurants) and is always made with tomato ketchup, thinly sliced onions and green pepper, Japanese bacon, and sliced wieners. It does in no way resemble classic Neapolitan sauce, either by taste or preparation.

As such, I think it's time that the merge tag was removed. Markmark28 (talk) 23:36, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Japanese distinguish between "Italian Tomato Sauce" (like a Marinara sauce) and Napolitan, which is not regarded as an Italian Sauce (and barely a tomato sauce at all.) You never add fresh tomatoes or Italian spices like Basil, Oregano and Garlic to a Napolitan. I think that considering the two sauces to be the same would be odd, when the Japanese themselves clearly distinguish them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.110.193 (talk) 04:20, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why "Naporitan"?[edit]

http://naporitan.org/ the name of the society is Nippon Naporitan Gakkai so Japanese people in Japan use Naporitan. Voss749 (talk) 01:26, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As a Japanese speaker and linguistics blogger, I feel there's no possible reason to write this "Naporitan" as this is nonsense and there's no difference between this and "Napolitan," which is not a word that exists either, although it's closer to Neapolitan, which would be "of or related to Naples." (In Italian it would be "Napoletano" or "Napoletana.")This sounds like a childish meme of the kind seen on Reddit, e.g. "So Ronery" instead of "So Lonely."

The sound is realised as a liquid approximant retroflex tap which has the wonderful property (in English words, to the English ear) of sounding like an L when an R is expected and vice versa. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:B52B:57DE:A7D1:7716 (talk) 07:36, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that "Naporitan" is rubbish, most likely born out of ignorance. But is "Napolitan" really any better? As you say, the word doesn't exist in Italian. Now, I claim no expertise in this area, but if I had to guess, I would assume it was French, ie Napolitain. I don't think the average Japanese speaker would care that it's the "wrong" language for a pasta dish (and you can forget about the adjective agreeing with the implied noun, since that concept doesn't exist in Japanese). But that's just my theory, and I can't provide a source... 92.10.193.95 (talk) 23:54, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Napolitan" is from Napoli combined with the honorific "-tan," which is used much in the same way that "-chan" is. It's essentially a "child of Napoli."24.107.137.18 (talk) 07:44, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Napolitan is actually closer to how most Japanese pronounce the word. And you would never transliterate the city of Napoli as "Napori", even if it had been written in kana. Finally, it is not uncommon to see the word in Romaji (Western alphabet) on product packaging in Japan, and they invariably use "Napolitan". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.110.193 (talk) 04:14, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

2600:1700:6250:89A0:541A:7BB1:147B:CE49 (talk) 22:53, 24 October 2019 (UTC)My best guess is that it is like Tempura, a word that has a very different meaning from its source. While in Japan, it means a style of cooking. In the West, it was part of quatuor anni tempora, a tradition for some branches of Christianity. Obviously, this is just a guess on my part, but it is a common situation in Japanese, so it seems possible for it to have occurred here as well.[reply]

External links modified (February 2018)[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Naporitan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:58, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tabasco Sauce?[edit]

Tabasco sauce is certainly tasty and well-matched with Japanese Napolitan pasta. But the claim that Tabasco is a normal ingredient of Napolitan sauce as served is very strange. In every version that I've tried, it always comes with no added spice and is a very sweet, bland dish, considered suitable for children. This is true of combi, super, frozen food and restaurant versions that I've tried.

The same is true of Chicken Rice which sometimes has Tabasco sauce added to it by diners, but is never served from the kitchen that way.

I would remove Tabasco from the description as a standard ingredient. At best, it might be noted that it is a common addition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.110.193 (talk) 04:08, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Naporitan&oldid=1204188064"