Talk:Legal affairs of Donald Trump as president/Archive 1

Archive 1

Timing/Timeline Table

For the period of time that List of lawsuits involving Donald Trump is current news, it might be useful to readers to have a table that summarizes the date and next step in each case. The deadline to respond under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure Rule 12 will lead to a flood of responses. It would also serve as a reminder to update these articles.

After these cases conclude in whatever way, the table could be discarded. Rhadow (talk) 15:22, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

ACLU v Trump

Hello all -- I made a change to this page to include ACLU v. Trump. It was dinged and deleted. The editor said, "For list articles like this it is generally expected that only items notable enough to have their own Wikipedia articles will be included. That especially applies to List of lawsuits involving Donald Trump as there have been hundreds, if not thousands, of lawsuits filed against Trump, and without any references listed on the page there's no other good way of narrowing it down. Please feel free to discuss on the article talk page if you disagree." I don't disagree at all, I just don't understand what's missing to make an inclusion wrong. Rhadow (talk) 22:41, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

@Rhadow: At the time you added the link, the article hadn't been written yet. Now that you've written it it's probably fine to include. Funcrunch (talk) 22:50, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

@Funcrunch: I just checked PACER. There are 90 open federal cases naming DJT, Most are routine -- prisoners asking for habeus corpus and the like. There are a few that echo the big ones: a class action suit from a guy claiming to represent the American People. It'll get thrown out. I think we have the major ones. I don't think the page is going to explode. BTW, if you check timestamps, I think you'll find ACLU v. Trump and Pence was created before you dinged it. Rhadow (talk) 22:43, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

@Rhadow: According to the timestamps, you added the article to this list at 08:48, 12 July 2017, then created the article at 10:06, 12 July 2017. At the time I reverted the addition at 10:09, 12 July 2017 it was showing as a redlink, possibly you were creating it at the same time I was in the process of making that edit. In any case, it's in the list now and I have no objection. Funcrunch (talk) 23:03, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

NAACP v. Trump

@Funcrunch I wanna add a case. In the interest of simplicity, I could call it NAACP v Trump. The real name is:

NAACP LEGAL DEFENSE & EDUCATIONAL FUND, INC.; and THE ORDINARY PEOPLE SOCIETY v. DONALD J. TRUMP, in his official capacity as President of the United States; PRESIDENTIAL ADVISORY COMMISSION ON ELECTION INTEGRITY, an advisory committee commissioned by President Trump; MICHAEL R. PENCE, in his official capacity as Chair of the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity; and KRIS W. KOBACH, in his official capacity as Vice Chair of the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity

What do you suggest I do? Rhadow (talk) 23:18, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

@Rhadow: NAACP v. Trump sounds reasonable to me. FYI, my recent comment on your talk page wasn't suggesting or implying that you should get feedback or ask permission before creating new articles, just before renaming existing ones. Funcrunch (talk) 23:24, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

@Funcrunch: Please have a look at User talk:Dakleman#PACER. A good direction, I think. Rhadow (talk) 11:42, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Merge to Legal affairs of Donald Trump

I have removed the content with no internal links, though there remain no references in this list. It is covered by WP:BLP and so in present form is liable for speedy deletion through lack of referencing. This is a potentially important list but as it pertains to one of the most litigious living persons around it is very important for it to be well-referenced.

In it's current form it offers little information, especially in comparison to Legal affairs of Donald Trump which would include this information with a new section on the lawsuits relating to the executive order. I would suggest it may be more appropriate to merge this information to that article, or return to being a disambiguation. |→ Spaully ^τ  11:35, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

I think you have missed the point. This page is a disambiguation page for all the lawsuits against Trump. All of this content is heavily cited in the attached articles. I am removing your tag. Octoberwoodland (talk) 17:53, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

And Legal Affairs of Donald Trump involve his personal legal issues, not those that arise from his actions as President, so the article you mention is not the place for this content. A lot of other editors are working on this, how about you help us if you are interested. Octoberwoodland (talk) 17:56, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

The title says this is a list, WP:BLP is clear that lists involving a living subject are covered by the policy - it exists partly to protect WP from libel which is especially important in this case.

If it is about Trump as president, the title needs to change. If it is a list it is covered by BLP and needs references. Given the extensive article you have worked on at Lawsuits against the immigration policy of Donald Trump I agree at present this page is more appropriate as a disambiguation page - in which case it should not be called a list.

I will move this page to suggest this is moved to Lawsuits involving Donald Trump and make clear it is a disambiguation page.

Remember we are all working towards the same goal but focus on different things and can offer differing amounts of time. You are adding important content to WP but it is also important that it is logically organised and secure from legal action. BW |→ Spaully ^τ  07:53, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

I cannot move it as that is already a redirect to the legal section of Donald Trump. If we agree as that as an appropriate action we can request a move at WP:RM to preserve the page histories. |→ Spaully ^τ  07:53, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

I have amended the page to distinguish personal and business lawsuits from lawsuits arising out of his actions as president. I agree with Octoberwoodland that Legal affairs of Donald Trump should remain focused on Trump's personal and business lawsuits, therefore presidential issues shouldn't be merged there. I have clarified this stance in the that article's hatnote. Regarding the title, I first thought it should be changed to "Lawsuits involving Donald Trump" but then withdrew the move request, because in the end this is more of a list than a strict dab page. I'm still open to being swayed though. — JFG ^talk 07:17, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

@Octoberwoodland: It strikes me that there are three categories of federal lawsuit agaisnt DJT. I say this after looking at PACER. There are personal suits naming him and his deceased father. There are suits naming him in his role as President (in which the DOJ will defend him). Those fall into two more categories. The first is those naming him ONLY because he is president, for example requests from prisoners asking habeus corpus and the like. They are typically not notable. The second is the set of cases brought as the result of actions taken by the President, i.e. travel ban, emoluments, and voting issues. They ARE notable, unless they are summarily dismissed. The most important thing we can do is keep an eye on the cases that are closed without significant action, then condense them as short, permanent archives. Here is a suggestion for how to handle that: User_talk:Dakleman#PACER. Thanks for your attention. Rhadow (talk) 13:14, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

I would agree with your assessment, and there may in fact be more categories, but in most of his lawsuits over his businesses he is listed as defendant as well as the business. I think your proposal is right on. Octoberwoodland (talk) 22:11, 20 July 2017 (UTC)