Talk:Environmental effects of bitcoin/GA1

GA Review[edit]

Passed. —Ganesha811 (talk) 23:34, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Ganesha811 (talk · contribs) 20:18, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! I'll be reviewing this article, using the template below. If you have any questions, feel free to ask them here. —Ganesha811 (talk) 20:18, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Feel free to ping me should you have any questions. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 08:28, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@A455bcd9, I think the changes required to meet 3a will be substantial, so before I continue with the remainder of the review, please have a look and make modifications. Thanks! —Ganesha811 (talk) 21:41, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Ganesha811, thanks again for conducting this review. Regarding 3a, here are my first thoughts:

'Regulatory responses': I don't think that there are other regulations regarding the environmental effects of bitcoin elsewhere, do you have any RS by any chance?
Cryptocurrency e-waste only cites de Vries, which is already cited here. I don't see any reason to expand this section which may actually be already way too long (WP:DUE).
The report is already cited (note 24). (And it's a primary source, so not great.)
I can add one sentence about the position of the industry before the scientific literature that mentions bitcoin's potential climate benefits. (=> done)
"comparison to other cryptocurrencies": it's already mentioned that A transition to the proof-of-stake protocol, which has better energy efficiency, has been described as a sustainable alternative to bitcoin's proof-of-work scheme and as a potential solution to its environmental issues. What else could be said?
The January review paper is already cited.
This paper: not sure it's RS: the journal Procedia is marred with controversy and the authors are from the "School of Aerospace, Transport and Manufacturing"...
NYT article: do you have access to it by any chance?

What do you think?

a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 22:08, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A few comments:

A few sources talk about China's environmental motivation behind banning mining in 2021. Canadian provinces too. The failed EU regulation effort from 2022 may also be worth a mention. The sources are there, just may take some digging to unearth them.
Re: de Vries - editorial judgement may differ, so no worries.
I'm not sure I'd call the report a primary source myself, but good to see it's used at least once - seems valuable as an overview.
Re: other cryptocurrencies - more specifics, whether Bitcoin is actually being mined less due to environmental concerns (if sources are available)
Re: January - great!
Re: Procedia - fair enough, thanks for due diligence.
Try this link for the NYtimes.
Any thoughts on water use?

—Ganesha811 (talk) 22:42, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ganesha811 Thanks. I'll have a look tmr morning. Regarding water I thought I answered sorry: there's only one non peer reviewed commentary by de Vries published last month in Cell. I'll add it somewhere (not sure where though 🤔). a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 22:53, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I added Canada and the EU. I'll dig more for China as miners are back in China today, so mining is somehow tolerated.

"other cryptocurrencies": I could not find sources claiming that "Bitcoin is actually being mined less due to environmental concerns". File:Bitcoin electricity consumption.svg actually shows an increase in mining, so I don't think there's any switch to other cryptocurrencies.

I added water use.

I'll read the NYT article and see if I can add stuff.

Regarding 1a:

"As of 2021, according to The New York Times, bitcoin's use of renewables ranged from 40% to 75%." => I'm afraid we don't have anything better than this (I researched a lot and the only other RS I found was Bloomberg Intelligence). I understand that it is "the share of all electricity used by bitcoin mining that comes from renewables" (at least the lower bound of 40%?). "the share of bitcoin mining operations that use some renewables in their electricity mix" would be close to 100% as there's now a bit of renewables every where.
"35 cents": it was not super clear to me either, I read the paper again and modified the text. I now understand better the concept and I hope that it's clearer. It's basically the climate cost (in $ instead of Co2) of each mined bitcoin (in $ instead of BTC).

a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 09:27, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think the 2021 40-75% NYTimes stat should be removed - it's such a wide range, that without being able to pin it down to a specific study whose reliability we can assess, it's just not very helpful to the reader. It's also a couple years out of date at this point in any case. Other than that, all looking good. —Ganesha811 (talk) 15:55, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I checked the NYT article (thanks again for sharing) and I added it twice: about PoW vs PoS and about the renewable % (54% fossil fuel in the US). I don't think there's more information there that needs to be added as it mainly focuses on the lack of benefits of mining in terms of jobs and the costs for the community in terms of energy + tax subsidies. (And I prefer in general high quality academic journals than newspapers.) a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 16:30, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've just added one line about the environmental concerns behind China's crackdown. Let me know if there's anything else I should do. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 17:01, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article now meets the GA standard. Bear in mind the caution in 5. below re: stability. Congrats to A455bcd9 and anyone else who worked on the article! —Ganesha811 (talk) 23:28, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	"As of 2021, according to The New York Times, bitcoin's use of renewables ranged from 40% to 75%." - what exactly does this mean? It's not very clear in the source either. Is this the share of all electricity used by bitcoin mining that comes from renewables? Or the share of bitcoin mining operations that use some renewables in their electricity mix? Or something else? Let's see if we can track down a better source and more specific description for these estimates. Addressed. A little more explanation of the Scientific Reports "35 cents" study would be helpful to the reader. Addressed. As is my usual practice, I've made prose tweaks myself to save us both time - let me know if there are any changes you object to. —Ganesha811 (talk) 23:28, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Pass, no issues.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	No uncited passages.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Sources are promisingly high quality. Seeing lots of reliable academia, some high-quality journalistic sources, and a few think-thank NGO pieces. The vast reams of unreliable blogposts on this topic are excluded. Pass. I'm suspecting the main thing to be sure of during this review will be that it is both up to date, and comprehensive. One issue of note: the Galaxy Digital study. While it was mentioned in a reliable source, that reliable source made no claims as to its validity, but just used it as an example of an argument made by crypto advocates. The full Galaxy Digital report is available here. Do we have any reason to believe it is actually an accurate or useful comparison? The qualms noted by Agur et al. seem valid. —Ganesha811 (talk) 17:34, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply] It's only because it is cited by RS that I found it noteworthy. I think we have the same situation with the WattTime report cited by the NYT. I don't understand what you mean by The qualms noted by Agur et al. seem valid. Agur et al. actually cite the report as a reliable source to confirm that indeed they focused on payments only and that they underestimate the whole banking sector's footprint. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 17:41, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply] Their full mention of the GD report: For bank transfers, we are not aware of any estimates on their energy consumption. Rybarczyk et al. (2021) provide an estimate for the energy consumption of the entire global banking sector. However, payments are only one of the many different services that banks perform and are not separately estimated. This is a commentary on the limitations of the GD report, not an endorsement of their result. It's saying that the GD report cannot be used to estimate the energy consumption of the traditional banking payment system, since it covers all energy use by banks. I don't think two passing mentions like this in reliable sources means that the GD report should be included, especially as the first sentence we have treats their claim as meaningful: One 2021 study by cryptocurrency investment firm Galaxy Digital claimed that bitcoin mining used less than half the energy of the banking system. I would recommend removing the sentences focused on the GD report, or combining them into one sentence that notes its limitations clearly. Another sentence about the IMF study could be added instead. —Ganesha811 (talk) 17:49, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply] That's not how I understand the sentence. For me it's about the limitations of their own report, not about GD's limitations. GD is the only report for the energy consumption of the entire global banking sector, while their is for payments only. Did I misunderstand something? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 17:59, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply] The point being, what value in this article is an estimate of energy consumption of the entire global banking sector? Bitcoin currently and even theoretically does not provide the same services as the entire global banking sector. —Ganesha811 (talk) 18:19, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply] But Bitcoin also offers more services/features than payment systems. So it's somewhat between "payment systems" and "global banking sector". But this is OR, so I'll remove the GD report. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 18:23, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply] Great! I pulled a couple more sentences that no longer added much value without the GD report. Issue addressed. Pass.
	2c. it contains no original research.	No OR found, all sections cited. No obvious synthesis, but will be checking closely again during prose review.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	Nothing found by Earwig, hold for manual spot check. Nothing found by manual spot check of 5 sources I could access. Pass.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	'Regulatory responses' focuses exclusively on the US, but there have been plenty of regulations dealing with environmental effects of bitcoin elsewhere, either proposed or adopted. Please rework this section to make sure it presents a global view of the subject. The article on Cryptocurrency e-waste has some good additional detail that could be incorporated here. Another paragraph (well cited) wouldn't hurt the section. This federal report should likely be mentioned in terms of regulatory and governmental responses in the US. This article should probably make mention of the fact that Bitcoin advocates frequently argue that Bitcoin's environmental effects are minimal or can be minimized - one example. Per the scientific literature, this is definitely a minority view among researchers, but the industry's general stance of "denial" is worth a sentence or two, as is the comparison to other cryptocurrencies, some of which are explicitly designed with minimization of energy requirements in mind. This review paper has good material that is up to date as of January. Please read through and incorporate - could be useful for high level summary. This study may have useful material for the comparison to fiat currency section. Not all parts of it focus on environmental impacts directly, but this in-depth NYTimes article has useful material for the electricity demand section. Bitcoin mining's use of water has gathered some attention - this should be mentioned in the article. Issues above all addressed, discussed. —Ganesha811 (talk) 16:42, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	No areas of considerable overdetail, any minor tweaks can be handled in prose review.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	After modifications, pass.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	This is trickier than many GA reviews, given the topic. There have been a number of recent disputes on the talk page and the article continues to evolve, with sources changing in the last few weeks. However, the issues do appear to have been resolved for now and there are no outstanding valid tags on the article. It is also currently protected. This one is close, but I'd say it is stable enough to pass GA. However, interested editors will have to be diligent (if it does pass review) about making sure that it is maintained at a GA standard, while avoiding WP:OWN behavior. —Ganesha811 (talk) 16:27, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	The public domain chart rationale is interesting - hadn't heard of that one. Appears to be completely valid. Pass.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	Well illustrated, no issues here.
	7. Overall assessment.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.