Talk:Boston Red Sox/Archive 4

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Archive 6

Boston Red Sox seasons article

I will leave this up to you Red Sox fans, members of the Boston Red Sox WikiProject, and interested Wikipedians to decide. I was working on adding links to orphaned Wikipedia pages when I ran across the article page Boston Red Sox seasons. That page is orphaned as of the time of this writing. I suggest that you might want to consider linking to it from this page or merging the content there into this page. Either way, I think it is within your jurisdiction here to decide, certainly more than it is in mine. Jonneroo (talk) 05:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it should be linked ASAP, does anyone have any idea of the best place to link to it from? I will look if I don't get a response within the next couple of days. Beam 00:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Not Needed?

I noticed something that I don't think belongs in the article. It says Henry comes to Boston next to one of the season year. I don't think words like this belong. You should stay one topic. Example:You should only put something that has to do with the World Series. Putting when they won, lost, ect. Thats my sugesstion.--RyRy5 (talk) 17:32, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ALE-BOS-Name-Print.PNG

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:34, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I fixed the issue --- Jeremy (talk) 01:05, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

More on team nickname - "Americans" never official?

Can anybody substantiate that "Boston Americans" was ever an official nickname of the club? bostonredsox.com doesn't list it in the club chronology[1] the way that other clubs do with their former nicknames (such as the Dodgers[2], Yankees[3], and Braves[4]). More to the point, we have this article "The Boston Pilgrims Never Existed"[5] written by Bill Nowlin, researcher and author of several books on the Red Sox, in which he says:

The team was also not named the Boston Americans. That was perhaps the most common nickname - to distinguish it from the older N.L. club in town

and

Stout and Johnson, earlier in RED SOX CENTURY, noted what I found in my own reading of the several Boston daily newspapers of this era, regarding both the AL and NL teams in Boston: "Neither team had a nickname, nor would they for several more seasons. Both were simply called 'the Bostons,' although to differentiate between the two clubs, fans, sportswriters, and players commonly began referring to the NL entry as 'the Nationals,' and their American League counterparts as 'the Americans.' Other nicknames, such as the Pilgrims, Puritans, Plymouth Rocks, Somersets (so named after owner Charles Somers), or Collinsmen (after manager Collins) for the AL team and the Beaneaters, Triumvirs, or Seleemen (after manager Frank Selee) for the Nationals, were convenient inventions of the press. Their subsequent use by many historians is misleading. None of these nicknames was ever widely used by either fans or players."

The use of "Americans" as a casual nickname referring to the league, not an official nickname, jives with other contemporary use of the name, such as these Fatima cards[6] in which all the teams are identified as "NEW YORK NATIONALS", "PHILADELPHIA AMERICANS", "BROOKLYN NATIONALS" and the like.

So can anybody provide evidence to the contrary? Perhaps "Americans" should be included with "Pilgrims," "Somersets" and "Puritans" as one of the many unofficial nicknames by which clubs were referred to in the early 20th century. SixFourThree (talk) 16:30, 12 March 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree

They had no official nickname at all until 1908, when "Red Sox" was adopted. "Americans" is the closest they came, with shirts sporting "B A" at one time. That one SABR researcher, the one you referenced, named Nowlin, and he's referenced in the article, studied this matter at length. "Pilgrims" is largely a fiction. The names you list were dubbed by the press. "Americans" is the one most commonly used by the press. Nicknames had a different stature then than they do now. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 22:35, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

You're absolutely right - they did. But the article doesn't make that clear, and certainly implies that "Americans" was an official nickname. It favors "Americans" and doesn't list the other unofficial nicknames used. I think this might be the relevant passage from his article:

In general, the feeling I was left with was that the team really did not have any name, nor did it have a common nickname. Even though the team was often described as the "Boston Americans," that was more often in the headlines than in the story. Even then, one did not get the impression that this was meant to be taken as the name of the time; it seemed more simply a way to distinguish the column presenting the AL team's coverage from that of the NL team's.

Though it's convenient (and enjoyable) to have team nicknames, I believe that, in this case and the team's 1902 uniforms notwithstanding, it would be inaccurate to state definitively that the team nickname was the "Americans" - the designator "Bostons" was used as often. Probably we are better off concluding that the team really had no nickname until "Red Sox" became established prior to the 1908 season.

We should make this clear in the article, possibly listing including "Americans" along with some of the other names given to the team in the papers, and explanations where appropriate. Maybe even a notation that while "Boston Pilgrims" seems to have been applied retroactively to the team, and the misconception persists that it was an early nickname, there is no evidence that it was used contemporaneously. What do you think of that approach? SixFourThree (talk) 14:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree

Yes, it should be made clear in the article (which I thought it was at one time, maybe somebody messed with it) that "Americans" was a convenient designation by the press, not an official nickname. Keep in mind that the use of "Americans" vs. "Nationals" was by no means exclusive to Boston. It was used by other cities, especially in New York. Read the notes on the Yankees in History of baseball team nicknames and you'll see how casual the press was with these names. If you want to call the pre-1908 Red Sox by their proper name, you should call them "Boston American League Baseball Club". Or would you rather just say "Boston Americans"? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 14:18, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I've been considering adding a notation about that "Americans" and "Nationals" thing to the other relevant clubs[7] for a while now. For the purposes of this article, I think we should try to avoid "Boston Americans", as to our modern ears it implies an official nickname. Let me take a crack at it today and we'll see what we can come up with. SixFourThree (talk) 15:53, 13 March 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree

The issue of nicknames is a slippery slope. You might get that hint from the History of team nicknames article. If not, I need to write it better. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 17:53, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

"Bostonians" is not proper, as that means a citizen of Boston. "Boston" (short for "Boston Baseball Club") would be proper, as would "the Bostons". "Boston Americans" (short for "American Leaguers") is also proper, if it's understood as distinguishing from "Boston Nationals" (i.e. National Leaguers). The problem is that fans are so nickname-conscious that "Boston Americans" is liable to be thought of as a nickname rather than as simply designating the American League. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 17:55, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - that's why I was trying to weed them out - I left it a reference to "Americans" in the section on the first World Series, when they are being contrasted with their National League opponents. Can't believe that I missed the infobox before, though. SixFourThree (talk) 19:53, 14 April 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree

While on the topic of nicknames, "The Nation" isn't accurate - it refers to the fan's of the team; it's not actually a team nickname. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Icculus760 (talk • contribs) 23:38, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

You're right - next time, go for it.SixFourThree (talk) 15:23, 23 December 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree

I've only heard/seen "The Nation" used as shorthand, either in conversation, or in a sports page article to save space. Could be someone mis-interpreted the reference in a Boston Globe archive. The full name is "Red Sox Nation." Which has in the information age been converted into an acroynmn (RSN) seen prominently on bumper stickers/trunk magnets in the New England area.VeeFourAJ (talk) 18:43, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, which is why I'm removing "The Nation" from the nickname list. SixFourThree (talk) 03:53, 27 January 2009 (UTC)SixFourThree

Factual error regarding Tony C

He was the youngest American League player to hit 100 hrs. Mel Ott was actually the youngest player in MLB history to reach the 100 hr threshhold. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.227.167.222 (talk) 05:42, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Crimson Hose

I saw that one of the nicknames listed for them is the Crimson Hose. I've never heard it, and the citation is from a blog where it looks like it is used as a joke. I'm going to remove if no one is against it. Tithonfury (talk) 22:51, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Go into Google and put "boston red sox" "crimson hose" and you will find a few hundred entries. I don't know how commonly it's used, but it's not a joke. It's in contrast to the Chicago White Sox, who are often called the "Pale Hose", at least by writers. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 23:04, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I heard from a Red Sox fan who is unfamiliar with that term and concludes it is not widely used. You could either put a "cn" on it, or delete it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 23:29, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Right, I see that now, but I don't think it's commonly used. Although it's such a minor part of the article I'd just say leave it as is. Tithonfury (talk) 01:06, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

It would be more challengeable if it were listed in the infobox. Teams have all kinds of nicknames (some of them unprintable), but only the ones commonly used belong in the infobox, and near as I can tell, this isn't one of them. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 01:37, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Current Roster

Somebody has vandalized the current roster and it needs to be rectified (whoever fixed it, thank you kindly). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.163.170.64 (talk) 03:20, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

GA failed

I have failed this per criteria 3 of the quick-fail criteria. Good articles should not have templates for clean-up needs. This article has two related to shorting the article. When the concerns of the templates are addressed, considering renominating for good article status. Metros (talk) 21:36, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

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Red Sox-Devil Rays rivarly

Hi, recently there's been a lot of tension between the Red Sox and the Rays vying for first place which has even elevated to physical violence. Meanwhile the Red Sox-Yankees relations have well... been alright, at least amongst the players. Such a rivalry has even been suggested by SoxSpace founder and second runner up for the president of Red Sox Nation, Jared Carrabis.--Cpharding618 (talk) 20:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The escalation, wrong or right, stemmed from some incidents in '08 involving Coco Crisp. Have to be a Red Sox 'nut' to remember some of these details... Coco *felt* that a Rays infielder (forget if it was SS or the 2B) endangered his well being by putting his knee down on the ground as Coco slid into 2nd base trying to break up a double play. Coco then retaliated on a separate play by ramming into a Rays player covering a base, might have been the catcher. In a different game, a Rays pitcher threw behind Coco's head. Coco was entitled to taking 1B, but instead decided to explain his displeasure with his fists. The Sox & the Rays should get along better now that Coco has been traded.VeeFourAJ (talk) 18:58, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Jersey Script?

Does anyone know where to find the actual jersey script used on the regular season jerseys? The one on here is the one the Red Sox call their official script, but in fact it's the same as the one from the logo, and possibly the spring training jerseys. The script on the regular uniforms is more detailed (you can really tell in the "S" and the "X"). Would be nice to have that picture on here. 162.136.192.1 (talk) 21:30, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Pesky has number retired but not in Baseball HOF

This should be at least commented on in the retired numbers section, and may probably require a rewrite of the whole section at some point, as it seems to me that retiring Pesky's number may introduce a whole new group of players for consideration of the honor. There's always been some debate about if or when Jim Rice's number will be retired, and I think this is a step toward that conclusion. --The Dopefish (talk) 03:52, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

• does anyone know why they keep deleting the number 6 i keep making for wiki? it's my own work to recreate the retired number and yet none of the other 5 are deleted. can anyone figure this out please Pharos04 (talk) 21:00, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

question?

In the Achievements succession box part of the page, UNTIL the Red Sox lose a series (or win the World Series), shouldn't the Succeeded by part after the 2007 championship be (Incumbent) or TBD, instead of NONE, as there will be a champion, we just don't know who yet. Also, should the Preceded by part before 1903 state either Inaugaral (sic) or First??Qazox (talk) 04:59, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

A little on the "Wordy" side

I don't think the article needs to be cut in two, but it definitely could use some editing.--Johnny Spasm (talk) 09:19, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I've been working on it, as anyone who checks the article history can see. I removed a couple of repeated facts, and did some general aditing and shortening of sentences, but no information has been removed. I hope no one dislikes my work.--Johnny Spasm (talk) 09:42, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Link request

I know that it is not common to get a link added to this section. I would however like to nominate http://www.redsoxkidnation.com It is a site for Kids who love the sox and is also non profit and a regular donater to the Jimmy fund. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rextrom (talk • contribs) 22:47, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

New logos

The Red Sox unveiled new logos yesterday[8]. The "hanging socks" logo is now the primary, the circle logo has been reconfigured and will be a secondary logo, the road and red alt jerseys have been changed, and a new blue alternate jersey has been added. I'll add the new primary and secondary logos, but maybe somebody else can help with the uniforms. SixFourThree (talk) 15:04, 12 December 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree