Talk:Algerian Air Force

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Can someone please put the algerian roundel on this page? it can be found at the list of air forces page

Mr. pumov, the information that you put on this page are incorrect according to the website that i linked, may you please check the inventaire part in the website? i have edited this page according to the website, but you keep deleting them, the su-27 is no longer in use and they were returned to ukraine, and the su-30 is not yet delivered, the mig 21 has been retired, and as far as i'm concerned, all the other aircraft that i deleted are either not used, retired, or not yet delivered to the algerian airforce. Please respond.

"End of 2010" has passed, delivery date for Yak 130's[edit]

The article states that the Russian-origin Yak-130s would be delivered by the end of 2010. Is there any credible news source or article clarifying whether the delivery has been made or not? In either case, the article would need to be modified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qasibr (talk • contribs) 06:41, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.algaf.bravehost.com/ Questionable Source[edit]

This is not a verified Source...

Questionable sources [1]

Questionable sources are those with a poor reputation for checking the facts, or which lack meaningful editorial oversight, or those with an apparent conflict of interest.[4] Such sources include, but are not limited to, websites and publications expressing views that are widely considered by other sources to be extremist or promotional, or which rely heavily on rumor and personal opinion. Questionable sources should be used only as sources of material on themselves, especially in articles about themselves; see below. They are unsuitable for citing contentious claims about third parties. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tabrisius (talk • contribs) 14:59, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Attempts to blow up the inventory[edit]

Hello,

Since an IP [2] is trying to exagerate the number of fighters in service by using non-RS sources and outdated references, I added some details, especially the number of fighters/helos delivered. Practically all the given data is taken from RS sources and specialized magazines/publications (inss.org.il, WAF2011/2012). We can even add csis.org but their report is, in comparison with other RS sources, not complete regarding Air Forces.

Also, I think that this kind of personal attacks isn't adequate for WP.

Regards, --Omar-toons (talk) 11:14, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinate error[edit]

{{geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for


—197.156.95.221 (talk) 20:49, 11 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The only coordinates in the article are those in the "Air bases" section, and the only error I noticed (which I have fixed) was the erroneous coordinates of the Boudghene Ben Ali Lotfi airport. Since you have given no explanation, I'm not sure whether that is what you had in mind; if you are reporting some other error, we'll need a clear explanation of what it is. Deor (talk) 14:55, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:26, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:08, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion[edit]

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Algerian Su-34[edit]

Algeria has bought Su-34E please checkout this youtube link for algerian news User:Ckfasdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh_wDFVFiS4 154.246.237.108 (talk) 04:19, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FSVTS officials in 2021 has stated that Russia will not deliver Su-34s to Algeria. Sources are as follows::
  1. https://www.scramble.nl/military-news/su-34s-over-algeria-s-martyr-s-square-now-uncertain
  2. https://northafricapost.com/48392-russia-debunks-algerian-reports-it-is-building-su-34-fighters-for-the-north-african-country.html
  3. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210317-russia-denies-supplying-algeria-with-su-34-fighters/
  4. https://defence-blog.com/egypt-algeria-indonesia-reject-su-35-fighter-jet-deals-with-russia/
  5. https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/27488-russia-denies-selling-su-34-fighter-jets-to-algeria/amp

Hence your edit most likely to be reverted. Ckfasdf (talk) 04:59, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove French translations from this article.[edit]

 – Ckfasdf (talk) 03:14, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

French has no official status in Algeria and this is obviously an English-language article. Remove the French translations from the article, they are out of place. Their inclusion is politically-charged and endorses imperialism, considering the government of Algeria has spent decades removing French colonial influence from the country. Kurdish Elf (talk) 00:54, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While French is not an official language in Algeria, the documentation for the |native_name= parameter on Template:Infobox military unit specifies that the name of the unit in the local language, not necessarily an official language. Additionally, the presence of a French language version on the official website of the Algerian Air Force (https://www.mdn.dz/site_cfa/accueil_fr.php) suggests that French is indeed considered a local language in Algeria. Therefore, we have a source for the unit name in French, satisfying the verifiability requirement. Ckfasdf (talk) 14:42, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, that does not confirm that French is a "local language".
It absolutely isn't a local language, lol.
The US government website offers Spanish translations and Spanish is way more spoken in the US than it ever was in Algeria (50 million native Spanish speakers vs < 100,000 native French speakers). If we go by your logic, then every term in the US military article should be translate to Spanish so why don't we do that instead? Kurdish Elf (talk) 19:17, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This discussion is one of four essentially identical discussions (1, 2, 3, 4) started today. All of them are on the same theme as previously discussed at length at Talk:Algeria. Unless there is something essentially unique or different pertaining to this article from any of the others, in order to prevent fragmentation and duplication, imho this discussion should continue at Talk:Algeria where it began. Mathglot (talk) 17:31, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Stop replying to me if you're not going to address the content and instead are going to keep babbling on about how you think I should be gaining consensus. Your presence here does nothing but annoy everyone involved in actually editing articles. Kurdish Elf (talk) 19:18, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

edit 27/04/2024 by MoussaCB[edit]

Refer to latest edit by MoussaCB, whereas:

  1. He put [[Russia]]/[[Russia|USSR]] on the MiG-29 column. Why would you put 2 wikilinks to Russia, please see MOS:LINKONCE..
  2. Ilyushin Il-78 is an aerial tanker variant of the Il-76. I don't really see the necessity to make changes to that column.
  3. He changed the role from "light transport" to "light transportation". Please note that "light transport" typically refers to the category or classification of aircraft used for transporting personnel or cargo certain distances, while "light transportation" could refer to the broader concept of transportation involving light aircraft. So, it should be reverted back to "light transport".
  4. He put U.S.A as the abbreviation of the United States, while MOS:NOTUSA explicitly says Do not use U.S.A..
  5. He removed letters in the variant column, such as changing "ATR-72-600" to "600". Note that according to the official ATR website, the variant name is "ATR-72-600". A similar case also occurs with the Beechcraft King Air.
  6. He changed Mi-17 to Mi-8, while both refer to the same helicopter, but Mi-8 is the Russian variant and Mi-17 is the export variant.
  7. He unexplainably removed the Zlin Z 43 (locally built as the Safir 43), which has sourced content.
  8. Lastly, he changed some sources of aircraft numbers from World Air Force 2024 to Military Balance 2024. While using another source is not necessarily wrong, given the many issues above, it would be easier to revert all the edits above. Ckfasdf (talk) 15:34, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1-for the MIG29 collumns and USSR i made a mistake,and im sorry about that. But the MIG29UB come from USSR.
2- changed needed to be made because algeria has 6 IL78,not 5. and IL78 is also a Heavy-weight transportation plane and it come from the USSR not RUSSIA.
3-i agree with you you are right
4- ok you are right
5- I DID NOT do that,i actualy changed 600 to ATR-72-600
6- the original name is MI8,not MI17
7- according to IISS algeria no longer operate that plane
8-IISS is much more trustable than Flightglobal موسى (talk) 09:19, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@MoussaCB: I noticed that you recently reverted my edit. Below is my comment, although it's not in chronological order. In my opinion, point 8 is important to note.
8. Please note that neither Flightglobal's World Air Forces (WAF) nor IISS' Military Balance holds a superior status over the other. Both can serve as reliable sources, but it's crucial to approach them with caution as both of them can contain inaccuracies. Therefore, it's advisable to refer additional sources to corroborate information and ensure accuracy. This also implies that if specific information isn't found in Military Balance, it doesn't necessarily warrant the removal of the entry. This is particularly relevant because Military Balance typically doesn't present aircraft with "on order" status.
1. Resolved
2. The total quantity of Il-78 aircraft differs between sources: World Air Forces 2024 lists it as 5, while Military Balance lists it as 6, both classified as "Tanker" aircraft. Further investigation reveals that Algeria acquired 6 Il-78s from Ukraine in 2004. According to data from scramble.nl data, 5 Il-78s are currently active, while 1 has been in storage since 2020. Therefore, since both sources primarily classify the Il-78 as a tanker aircraft, the role should not be labeled as "heavy transportation." Additionally, considering the corroborating evidence, World Air Forces 2024 appears to be the more reliable source in this instance.
3. Resolved
4. Resolved
5. Resolved. I made a mistake in my initial comment, which is why I struck it out.
6. The total quantity of Mi-8/17/171 helicopters varies between sources: World Air Forces 2024 lists it as 138, while Military Balance lists it as 39 Mi-171Sh and 35 Mi-8T. According to scramble.nl, all Mi-8 helicopters have been withdrawn from use, leaving only Mi-17 and Mi-171Sh in operation. Therefore, relying solely on WAF data may include Mi-8 helicopters that are already withdrawn from service. Additionally, since there is no reference to Mi-17 operations, it would be appropriate to list only the 39 Mi-171Sh helicopters as sourced in Military Balance.
7. It's true that both World Air Forces 2024 and Military Balance don't include the Safir 43 (Zlin Z 43) in their listings. However, the original source for this aircraft is neither of them. The original source indicates that the Safir 43 underwent engine overhaul at LOM Praha in 2022. Furthermore, a news article in 2024 still mentions that the overhaul is ongoing. Therefore, in this case, we shouldn't rely on either WAF or Military Balance, and we can just refer to military.africa source. Please also see point 8 above.
9. Regarding the A-340, please refrain from reintroducing deprecated sources (in this case, globalsecurity.org, as per WP:GLOBALSECURITY) into the article. Additionally, I did not observe the A-340 listed in Military Balance. According to airliners.net, the aircraft is owned by the "ALGERIAN GOVERNMENT," and it bears the registration number 7T-VPP, falling within the range of civilian aircraft registrations in Algeria (7T-VAA to 7T-VZZ), as indicated in List of aircraft registration prefixes.
10. The link to Kamov Ka-10 is incorrect, as it refers to a helicopter that is entirely different from the Ka-27/32. Ckfasdf (talk) 17:35, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
8-IISS is payware and list aircraft with its exact variant most of time,for Flightglobal its the total reverse,but i agree with you for the orders.
2-Algeria did not recive IL78 from Ukraine. those were IL76MD who where upgraded to the IL78 format in Russia. and the IL76MD from ukraine came from the USSR,so it dosent really matter.
6-scramble is unreliable,for example algeria all upgraded their MI24V to MI24MK3 format,well according to scramble algeria still operate MI24V which is totaly untrue,same for the SU27,according to scramble algeria operates SU30MKI-3(R) which is a fictive variant that dosent exist according to https://redsamovar.com/2017/01/08/actu-su-30mka/ so i dont want to use Scramble as a source. and i also have resolved that
i will respond later to other message موسى (talk) 12:05, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
8. FlightGlobal obtains the majority of its data from Cirium, a company specializing in aviation analytics. Although FlightGlobal offers the World Air Forces yearly at no charge, its reliability shouldn't be discounted when compared to paid products like the Military Balance from the International Institute for Strategic Studies. The availability of the World Air Forces for free simply indicates that FlightGlobal generates its revenue from other products, not necessarily from this specific offering. Ckfasdf (talk) 12:25, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
8- isnt cirrum flightglobal? also scramble say algeria operates 1 MIG25RBV but you know that i know its not the case,according to algeria its MIG25R and according to me the one who defended this when their was no source its 5 MIG25RBSH and 1 MIG25RU. موسى (talk) 15:49, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
8. FlightGlobal and Cirium are separate company, although they were previously affiliated under the same company.
And, I thought that you understand that Wikipedia operates under the Verifiability policy by now. The information regarding the MiG25RBV is sourced from Scramble, a reputable name in the aviation news industry. While it's possible for Scramble to be incorrect, unless we have a more reliable alternative, such as Janes, FlightGlobal, IISS, SIPRI, or other reputable source in aviation; there's no reason to dismiss Scramble. Please also read WP:TRUTH. Ckfasdf (talk) 18:00, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
reason to dismiss scramble:
1-SU30MKI-3(R) dosent exist according to multiple source
2- Algeria obv no longer operate MI24V for a long long time as it upgraded all its one to the MI24MK3 standart,but according to scramble,algeria still does in fact operate it which is a total lie
3- Scramble say algeria operate SU24MK2 and SU24MRK2/MR2 which is a total lie,all algerian SU24 ever recived are M,MK,MR and MP.
this are just the one i saw rapidly,im pretty sure there is many more موسى (talk) 19:34, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Having one or two errors doesn't automatically discredit a source as unreliable. Even reliable sources can make mistakes occasionally. By the way, it appears that Algeria indeed operated the SU24MK2 aircraft. https://www.military.africa/2020/04/algerian-su-24-fencers-gets-navigation-and-attack-systems-upgrade/ Ckfasdf (talk) 13:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
2. RIA Novosti reported that Algeria acquired 6 Il-78s from Ukraine in 2004 and they are listed as "Tanker". Ckfasdf (talk) 14:15, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
this source dosent even mention ukraine موسى (talk) 19:31, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My bad, But I dont think that's the main issue.. As just recently see the issue, see poin 13 below. Ckfasdf (talk) 13:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
9- https://drive.google.com/file/d/13k-StVOwcvOTWScw8u38dNHJ4GBUVBEp/view?usp=drive_link
10- Isnt KA10 the initial version? like SU27S and SU35SK for example? موسى (talk) 12:24, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
10. No, they are totally different helicopter Kamov Ka-10 was first built in 1949, while Kamov Ka-27 was developed in 1970s. Ckfasdf (talk) 01:36, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
KA27 was first developped in the 1960s according to Kamov Ka-15, Ka-25, Ka-26, & Ka-27 (airvectors.net)
and i will resolve it,you are right KA10 has nothigh to do with it
i got mistaken because of wikipedia where it say its based on it on articles موسى (talk) 19:18, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
the a340 and atr72 arent operated by netiher the Air force or the Gov of algeria,they are operated exclusivly by AIR ALGERIE,yes i know there are no source defending me but like the MIG25 one day i hope that evidence will be shown,for now i dont know what to do so i just put the air force. and just so you know,Presidents used to fly on air algerie operated planes before the Gulfstream 2,A340 and ATR72 came,so its not as bizzare when you think about it موسى (talk) 12:38, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
11. W-3 is absent from Military Balance, but it remains listed in World Air Forces. Furthermore, it is identified as an active aircraft on scramble.nl. Therefore, it should be reinstated into the inventory table. Please also see point 8 above. Ckfasdf (talk) 17:35, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
11- W3 is a variant of MI2 موسى (talk) 12:27, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
11- resolved موسى (talk) 12:31, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
11. @MoussaCB: No, They are different helicopter, PZL W-3 Sokół is not variant of Mil Mi-2. Ckfasdf (talk) 01:36, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
W-3A SOKOL | Ministry of Defence & Armed Forces of the Czech Republic (army.cz)
"W-3A SOKOL
This is a two-engine, turbo-shaft multipurpose helicopter, whose design is based on the Mil Mi-2 "HOPLITE"." موسى (talk) 19:14, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
11. see point (13) to discuss it below. Ckfasdf (talk) 13:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
12. ATR-72, Algeria government, not Air force, operate 2 ATR-72 (7T-VPE and 7T-VPF), both registration number is within the range of civilian aircraft registrations. Ckfasdf (talk) 13:23, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Algerian air force Berive b200 have a civil registration number and its clearly writen algerian air force in their livery موسى (talk) 12:57, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
9 and 12. Please look up to List of aircraft registration prefixes, where it's stated that aircraft with registration numbers within the range of 7T-WAA to 7T-WZZ are classified as Military Aircraft. All six Beechcraft 1900D aircraft belonging to the Algerian Air Force have registrations of 7T-WRA, 7T-WRB, 7T-WRC, 7T-WRD, 7T-WRE, and 7T-WRF, which fall within that range. On the other hand, the A340 (7T-VPP) and two ATR72s (7T-VPE and 7T-VPF) have registration numbers within the range of civilian aircraft registrations, not military. Therefore, it appears that Military Balance was mistaken regarding the A340 and ATR72 entries, and they should be removed. Ckfasdf (talk) 01:36, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Additionally, if you visit planespotting websites like planespotters.net, you'll notice that nearly all Algerian Air Force aircraft have registration numbers starting with 7T-W**. Ckfasdf (talk) 02:58, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
here is a algerian air force plane registrated 7T-VPV https://www.military.africa/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Algeria_FAA_Be-200ES_via_Algerian_Armed_Forces-1024x756.jpg موسى (talk) 19:13, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're correct about 7T-VPV sporting the "Algerian Air Force" livery, and its registration number falls within the range typically assigned to civilian aircraft. This could suggest it's an exception, or perhaps information for range of civilian aircraft registrations is incorrect. However, it's worth noting that among the 7T-VP* aircraft, only 7T-VPV features the "Algerian Air Force" livery, while the others display "People's Democratic Republic of Algeria". This ambiguity makes it unclear whether the rest 7T-VP* belongs to the Algerian Air Force or not. Ckfasdf (talk) 13:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
13. I noticed that you've listed the "original" aircraft in the Aircraft column, such as Sukhoi Su-27 instead of Sukhoi Su-30, Ilyushin Il-76 instead of Ilyushin Il-78, and Mil Mi-2 instead of PZL W-3 Sokół. If you aim for consistency, you should also consider listing CN-235 instead of C-295 or F/A-18 Hornet instead of F/A-18 Super Hornet. However, it's worth noting that many people might not view the Su-30 as a mere variant of the Su-27 or the Il-78 as a variant of the Il-76 and so on. Additionally, the Wikipedia:WikiProject Aviation/Style guide suggests to Where possible use the same name as the aircraft article on Type column, or we typically follow this convention in the Aircraft column. Ckfasdf (talk) 13:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
we dont have to make the article wrong just because some random people dont know about planes,we must make it as accurate as possible. and for the CN295 i just corrected it,thanks for the information موسى (talk) 17:15, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I still disagree, Aircraft column should be filled in their individual type, not whichever they are based from. For example, we should list C-295 instead of CN-235 on Aircraft column, because even though C-295 is developed from CN-235, it still has its own rating/airworthiness certificate and C-295 is not simply a variant if CN-235. Ckfasdf (talk) 23:33, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to invite other experienced editor on aviation, such as Ahunt, BilCat, Fnlayson or FOX 52, to discuss this matter. Ckfasdf (talk) 23:39, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
and saying the SU30MKA is most similar to SU30 is a BIG BIG LIE. SU30MKA is more similar to SU27M/SU35/SU37 than SU30,as a matter of fact SU30MKA is just a SU30MKI-3 without the israeli pods and a HUD made in india. and SU30MKI-3 is just a SU37 with a english cockpit, 2 seats and a slightly modified radar so that some compenents are made in india. and SU37 is just a SU27M with the same radar but modified so that it has a 400km range instead of 200km and upgraded engines,and SU35 is just a SU27M with a english cockpit.
so lets do a comparaison
SU35 SU30MKA SU30 SU37
RADAR : N011 N011M N001 N011M
ENGINES: AL31FM (3D tvc) AL31FP (3d tvc) AL31F (no tvc) AL31FP (3d TVC)
canards: yes yes no yes
2 seat? no yes yes no
as you see SU30MKA is most similar to SU35 and SU37 and not SU30
and SU30 was going to be called SU27PU,its just the name was changed last moment
and there is no plane simply called SU27,but there is a plane simply called SU30,so you cant refer to a SU30MKA a SU30,but you can a SU27 موسى (talk) 09:23, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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