Talk:José Salvador Alvarenga

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A fact from José Salvador Alvarenga appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 11 February 2014 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Jose Salvador Alvarenga, an El Salvadorian fisherman, claimed in February 2014 to have survived 13 months at sea?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2014/February.

Wikipedia

Which one is correct?[edit]

The article claims:

...he worked as a fisherman[4] for a man he called "Willie," whose real name may have been "Villermino Rodriguez."

It also claims right after this:

...Rodriguez's father, Villermino Rodriguez Solis, said that Alvarenga had gone missing...

Which of these is correct? The context doesn't read that his employer was his father, and I doubt "Willie" had the identical name to the man's father. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TricksterWolf (talk • contribs) 05:37, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He has just spent 13 months on a boat, probably 9 alone. He is malnourished, probably dehydrated. The chances are he is confused about the details, and may need a while to sort them out. Martin451 06:10, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He certainly doesn't appear malnourished, and the name of his father isn't something that relies on his story. Just sayin'. If I had the time or inclination I'd follow sources to see which one is wrong, but I thought someone might already be following the story. TricksterWolf (talk) 00:00, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is not the first such claim[edit]

See for example: "Mexicans' 'nine-month' sea ordeal". BBC News. UK: BBC. 16 August 2006. Retrieved 5 January 2014. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= and |date= (help)

--Senra (talk) 11:18, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I removed this as irrelevant trivia, more so in the section, per WP:TRIVIA. If there is another page then it can be added to the see also section (although it'll probably get deleted or merged).(Lihaas (talk) 17:16, 6 February 2014 (UTC)).[reply]

You are removing "irrelevant trivia" yet this article has a "rumors" section? The opinions of a boat owner in Mexico about how long someone can go without scurvy, and the opinions of other entirely speculative unscientific lay men about what feels to be possible have absolutely no bearing on this story whatsoever. The whole event is getting a smear job (by the American media at least) trying to dismiss this as quickly as possible with no evidence to contradict the events. I'm not saying the story is true or false, but there is zero evidence of it being false and lots of positive evidence of it being true, such as him showing up on a small boat from Mexico in the Marshall Islands. That's verifiable. That's the story. Now did he launch off a cruise ship a few miles out so the locals wouldn't see and this was all a ruse by a poor Salvadorian, who knows. Maybe he'll rub two pesos together and make the Statute of Liberty disappear, because poor immigrants are so notorious for elaborate hoaxes. How about sticking with the facts? Promontoriumispromontorium (talk) 20:00, 10 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"such as him showing up on a small boat from Mexico in the Marshall Islands." I can show up in a small boat in your driveway does not say anything about how the boat got there! "because poor immigrants are so notorious for elaborate hoaxes" Great logical fallacy and slightly racist! Maybe look at how he claims he survived drinking blood from birds and turtles! There must have been alot of suicidal birds and turtles lining up. Also the condition of his skin, how do you think it should be after 438 in the sun and wearing a salty clothing? Also this diet is clearly great for putting on weight! --Apemonkey1 (talk) 00:43, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Additional Information[edit]

The following article contains additional information from someone who interviewed Alvarenga first hand: http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/first-contact-with-castaway-jose-salvador-alvarenga-20140205 This content possibly deserves it's own section in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vkdevlin (talk • contribs) 12:56, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Notable[edit]

Before sending this to AFD, its better to discuss it here. How is this notable? It doesnt have anything lasting other than being WP:NOTNEWS.(Lihaas (talk) 17:17, 6 February 2014 (UTC)).[reply]

I oppose deletion on notability grounds. If this man's story is true, his ordeal would rank among the longest of seaborne castaways recorded in this encyclopedia. If false, it would be one of a number of remarkable hoaxes. Matjamoe (talk) 20:22, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Basing it on ifs and buts is speculation and hence per Wp:CRYSTALBALL(Lihaas (talk) 01:37, 7 February 2014 (UTC)).[reply]

Without speculating, we can deduce that the man's story is either true or false. The notability criteria are met in either event. Matjamoe (talk) 04:00, 7 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The person himself is not notable, however the story may be, especially if he survived over a year at sea. We have an article on Jesús Vidaña who, with two others were lost at sea for 10 months. Also Lim Poon lost for 115 days. As you say Lihaas, this may not be notable, but we don't seem to have an article on being lost at sea for a prolonged period, even though the topic itself seems notable [1]. Before sending to AfD it would be nice to have a valid merge target. Martin451 07:29, 7 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What kind of boat?[edit]

The article says in two places "he set sail," which would make more sense if he was in a sailboat than if he was in a motorboat. I grant that this term is sometimes used for powerd boats or ships with no sails. But if it was a sailboat and the motor quit, he should have been able to sail back to the country of origin. If it was a motorboat it would be better to say "he set forth" or "he set out." 98.213.49.221 (talk) 19:26, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The phrase "set sail" is indeed the correct nautical term. It appears "set sail" was purged from the article because the boat did not have a mast and a sail. The literal meaning of "set sail" is indeed to hoist the sails on a sailing vessel. However the alternate nautical meaning is to begin a voyage at sea for any type of vessel:

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/set-sail
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/set-sail?q=set+sail — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vkdevlin (talk • contribs) 15:52, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Links[edit]

>> Castaway fisherman returns to El Salvador >> Castaway's arrival 'surprised' islanders(Lihaas (talk) 13:10, 16 February 2014 (UTC)).[][reply]

Rewrite needed now that dust has mostly settled[edit]

A lot of the info in this article was interesting in the hours following his appearance, but is of no interest historically. For example, we don't need a direct quote about how the first person to see him was surprised he wasn't thinner. His daughter saying she'll kiss and hug him is also not very notable. I know it's hard to delete sentences with references, but it's necessary to get to a quality article. Gronky (talk) 10:29, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

needs rewrite[edit]

There is no evidence at all that this was a hoax, except some people saying it was incredible. All the evidence points to that he did what he said.AtomAnt (talk) 01:34, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a new article from The Guardian which brought me here: Lost at sea: the man who vanished for 14 months. Indeed, there is no reason to believe the story is false, and also there are no alternative explanations. GregorB (talk) 18:02, 7 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've edited the article a bit to add a link to that Guardian article, and play down the scepticism, which can now be considered basically debunked. This article should state his story as factual, and now it does. Robofish (talk) 23:51, 7 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WOW yes people know starving and having no water is very fattening and also great for the skin being exposed to salt on your skin and sun for 438 days makes it look good not damaged. How many sea birds worth of blood is the Daily Recommended Intake? Even 2 litres how many is that? Also not eating any fruit or veg for 438 days is a great way to not get scurvy!--Apemonkey1 (talk) 00:36, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Apemonkey1, you may wish to inform AtomAnt, GregorB, and Robofish if you are responding to comments they made four or five years ago, and if you want to effect change to the article. (Note that your mere opinions won't be helpful here.) -- Hoary (talk) 00:25, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No opinion common knowledge, you dont know starvation causes weight loss! but if dont know that please consult a person who will inform you about drinking blood and how much blood is in sea birds! or try living on sea bird blood after catching how many birds a day? from a small boat with no gear! to get the how many litres of water a day?--Apemonkey1 (talk) 08:45, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please either cite reliable sources or say nothing. -- Hoary (talk) 08:54, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hoary :::Please either cite reliable sources or say nothing. This does not include his claim. Published Peer Reviewed Papers showing ALL of what he claims is true! Not just that its actually possible but that he actually did it, which there is none of but that seems fine! --Apemonkey1 (talk) 09:00, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is no requirement for peer-reviewed academic papers. Just what change do you want made to the article, and what sources would you cite for this change? -- Hoary (talk) 09:30, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Here it's important to understand two things:

Whatever the article says has to be supported by sources, and not any editor's reasoning (see WP:OR).
The sources have to directly support the claim; one cannot use two or more sources and construct an argument not directly supported by any one of them (see WP:SYNTH).

It's actually very simple. GregorB (talk) 09:53, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly a Fairy Tale[edit]

How can this article treat this lie as being true? It is so full of holes, it clearly is not true! 438 days with no water, no food (you aint going to catch that many fish/turtles/birds) even if you did would still have scurvy (he did not) he was as fat as when he left! he did not have any skin damage from the sun, salt water!--Apemonkey1 (talk) 00:31, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Apemonkey1, can you specify worthwhile published sources that question the veracity of this tale? If you can, then please do so. -- Hoary (talk) 00:18, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hoary, I dont know if many people spend their scientific research time publishing papers on how santa, the easter bunny, this story or mickey mouse is fake! So if thats the standard we need to update these pages to claim they are real! Or you could prove it by saying what birds and how many you had to kill to get 3 litres of blood from them! and what it did to you when you drank 3 litres in one day! OH there is papers on what happens when you injest way less blood than that! Or ask a doctor, its not secret!--Apemonkey1 (talk) 08:51, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What is the survivor doing currently?[edit]

Would be curious about the current status of survivor. Did he reunite with family, Daughter? did he ever go back to fishing boating? Where is he living present day? 2603:9000:A701:CFE8:B41B:EB40:75B7:AC15 (talk) 14:54, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]